Pegasus Mail & Mercury

ducky273:

I do not want to advocate a glossy bubble gum interface, but rather a modern interface which combines functinality with appropriate design.

 @ scwallac: So what will the improvements in the core functions be? I personally think that the interface is at the very core of functionality!

In terms of new core functionality, an improved address book is the most obvious feature that is on the top of many people's wishlist.  There are many other good ideas over in the "Suggestions" forum of this website (some of these are suggestions to fine tune the existing GUI and others are suggestions for new functionality).

I'm with David, I really don't understand the meaning of the terms "modern interface" and "appropriate design".  I just hope they are not code for "looks like MS Outlook".  

David Harris:

I'm sorry, but this is just petty, and I deserve better. (...)

I admit that my last post was provocative, but I think it was necessary to evoke a reaction. This is not against you as a person and I fully understand that you are torn between two groups of users with different expectations.

 

David Harris:

Be specific (...)

OK, I'm trying to make it as short as possible.

 

The issues I would bring up are the following ones:

1. Problems with resizing/maximazing windows and unexpected positioning of windows

a) The message editor... (I'm glad to read that you have changed the positioning of the message editor in v. 4.5.).

b) After choosing options or internet options, the maximized preview-mode window (in the background) doesn't stay maximized

c) If you maximize the options window, Pmail will forget the setting for this window (plus the internet options window and the options window are not draggable if using a maximized preview-mode window, because Pmail obviously thinks that all windows are maximized while they are not).

2. The closing x bug (http://community.pmail.com/forums/thread/1609.aspx )

3. The multiple borders bug ( http://community.pmail.com/forums/thread/8910.aspx )

4. Double click doesn't open messages with large attachments (e.g. pictures) or pure html-messages (in preview mode)

5. Tabs at bottom: no right-click menu, no closing x

6. Default font size too small (if you change the font size to a higher unit the folder icons are too small.)

7. IMAP profiles window: strange margins between the entries (if you have several profiles)

8. Spamhalter, clean-up window: closing x not working

9. Deleted messages folder: a little button/link to delete all messages in this folder with a single click would be nice

10. Some windows have a closing x button, some not (e.g. identities or options have no closing x)

11. Some windows have a cancel button, some not (e.g. the global whitelist window). 

12. Font size changing from default to bigger sizes: fonts display looks strange (not sure if Pmail is the problem here)

13. Margin/line-height problem: e.g. there should be a greater distance between the folder icons (this would make scaling fonts easier)

14. Missing possibility to change the sorting of folders (e.g. important folders could be positioned at the very top regardless of what their name is)

15. Customizable tool bars: the possibility to remove or add icons if (not) needed. (I know that there is an option to change parts of one of the tool bars)

 

As everybody can see: nothing special, no Aero Glass.

I admit that my last post was provocative, but I think it was necessary to evoke a reaction. This is not against you as a person and I fully understand that you are torn between two groups of users with different expectations.

No matter what you say it was against the program developer as a person directly.  You said he did not not how to design a good program. 

And you are also correct that there are a lot of users that do not want a design interface that is "look pretty" that gets in the way of functionality.   FWIW, many of the things on your list are a direct result of the way that the Windows OS operates and is not under the complete control of the developer.

---

Thomas R. Stephenson
Member of Pegasus Mail Support Team

When I read this discussion about the interface of Pegasusmail I would say that if you show 10 people 10 different interfaces of the same program you can hear 7 different answers for what they would prefer.

I am using pegasus mail since 9 years ( very successful ) and for me is the interface absolutly fine.

This will say that I think the look of the interface is not the first, the program features, updates if there is a bug, and functions are at first. Nobody would use a program which looks great but it will not work fine. I think that the developers works hard and fine, users should not only say whats wrong, they even should say when an program is fine or helpfuly. This is a motivation for a program autor for future releases.

Thanks to David Harris and his team for is work and a succsesful future.

Hi all !

Well, concerning the interface, I am more than satisfied with the current one and I hope it will not change. It is sleek and functional and has a little retro touch that linked us to the past years of service. Now, that said it is true that some users will not invest their time into discovering Pegasus Mail because of the interface, and to be honest that was the reason I skipped it in the first place. I made a suggestion in the appropriate section of the forum about implementing " skin module " so that people would be able to glossy our favourite email client all they want. This way, the community could participate more, the interface issue would be dealt for good, the loss of users would diminish, and maybe someone will suggest a nice set of icons, several of which could please everyone and make it to the core program. I am no programmer, but I think this skin module should not be that much time consuming for an experienced programmer as David. I say that because such programs as " Cool Player " that are light have a skin option. I hope this suggestion will catch your attention.

Cheers !

Ginhead.

Marc:

OK, I'm trying to make it as short as possible.

The issues I would bring up are the following ones:

{....heavy snipping....}

As everybody can see: nothing special, no Aero Glass.

 This is a great and detailed list.  I hope you can take the time to move it over to the "Suggestions and Wishlists" forum.

 Personally, I would classify all of these as "GUI fine-tuning" not necessarily a "new user interface".  I think that we all mis-understood your previous posts because it sounded like you were asking for a completely new GUI.

 -Sean

I agree with Ginhead.

Supporting different skins could be a possible (easy) solution. Most of the users can use the "default" skin and

users who want a more colorful or different skin can build one on their own. But of course I don't know, how difficult this

would be to implement in Pegasus.

---

kind regards

Ginhead:

Hi all !

Well, concerning the interface, I am more than satisfied with the current one and I hope it will not change. It is sleek and functional and has a little retro touch that linked us to the past years of service. Now, that said it is true that some users will not invest their time into discovering Pegasus Mail because of the interface, and to be honest that was the reason I skipped it in the first place. I made a suggestion in the appropriate section of the forum about implementing " skin module " so that people would be able to glossy our favourite email client all thay want. This way, the community could participate more, the interface issue would be dealt for good, the loss of users would diminish, and maybe someone will suggest a nice set of icons, several of which could please everyone and make it to the core program. I am no programmer, but I think this skin module should not be that much time consuming for an experienced programmer as David. I say that because such programs as " Cool Player " that are light have a skin option. I hope this suggestion will catch your attention.

Cheers !

Ginhead.

 Ginhead,

I totally agree with everything you say.  I think your idea for a skins interface is a very good idea mostly because it would help to better engage the user community. 

There are so many enthusiastic Pegasus users, but I think many of us have been frustrated because there is no convenient way for us to customize the program, build plug-ins for it, or participate in the development process in a meaningful way.  Basically, we can post our desires to the "Suggestions and Wishlist" forum and hope for the best....but that's really the only thing we can do.

I certainly respect the privacy and value of David's source code, and I would never expect or ask him to "open" that source code up.  But if we could at least get some basic API's revealed, then so many more people could participate in the development independently, and make it a better and better program through plug-ins (or "extensions" or whatever...).  Software today is incredibly complex, and it's unreasonable to expect one person to write all of that code to satisfy every user's hopes and desires.  It just can't happen (given finite time and resources).

 Some of my favorite tools, for example Total Commander (previously Windows Commander) have a well documented API for plug-ins.  People around the world write awesome plug-ins that extend the functionality of the program, make it more useful to a broader group of people, and generally build on the strength of the original author's core code.  And the best part....ALL of this awesome new functionality is gained without the original author typing a single line of code or exerting any additional effort. 

I know one thing for sure....if there was a documented plug-in interface that I could use, I would quit whining about the address book and just write the code to do what I want.  In fact, I think there would be a lot less whining on these forums overall. 

-Sean

 Some of my favorite tools, for example Total Commander (previously Windows Commander) have a well documented API for plug-ins.  People around the world write awesome plug-ins that extend the functionality of the program, make it more useful to a broader group of people, and generally build on the strength of the original author's core code.  And the best part....ALL of this awesome new functionality is gained without the original author typing a single line of code or exerting any additional effort.

Not all that sure what to say here, there has been an API around for quite some time with WinPMail that allowed users to write extensions to the program.  Many of these come with the program, others are available like Martin's VirScan and the various PGP extensions. 

 

---

Thomas R. Stephenson
Member of Pegasus Mail Support Team

I hate to step into the "fray" at this point, but i feel several good points and been brought up and i will give my opinion.

 

David - First of all, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for a "free" email program that i have used since 1995 - there is no other email program to me.

 

New User Interface: When i read this, i think of a more graphical, aesthetic type of interface. It would be "nice", but i look for functionality. Has the "graphical interface" turned users away? I am sure it has. I have had several clients who use Outlook, Thunderbird, etc. ask me how to accomplish a task... they are easily accomplished in Pegasus Mail AND the PM does not crash. I would recommend the "skin" graphical interface. Winamp has/had something similar... not sure about programming, but i like the idea. Let someone else create the graphics!

New Features/Complaints: David, my only complaint is the slow releases for Pegaus Mail. I realize we are in a transition period and i am good with that. I would look for and expect version 5 to have plans for "graphic skins" and several of the "Suggestions". If you only incorporated one or two suggestions with each release... it keeps the users coming back. Ok, that is my only complaint... good news is... Pegasus Mail putts right along, never faltering, answering my email during these long waits between releases. Now folks, that is something to be said about a piece of software!.

 

 

Marc:

OK, I'm trying to make it as short as possible.

An initial scan shows that many of your points are fair, and I should be able to do something about a good number of them. Leave it with me - as I work through the list, I'll make further postings here.

Cheers!

-- David --

Hi !

I would like to suggest a meaningful addition to the program which I already presented in the suggestion forum, but why not " demonstrate " here again . Well, it would be nice if one could change the color of the tray and folder icons. Indeed, this will give users another level of classification. For instance, red trays could mean something while blue ones something else. As of now, trays are all white and folders are all yellow. Again, I do not know how difficult this could be to code, but I really think it would be a valuable addition ... that no other email client has ... yet. As usual, I hope my suggestion will be looked at.

Cheers !

Ginhead.

Ginhead:

it would be nice if one could change the color of the tray and folder icons.

This is essentially already on the list, and has been for quite some time. By "essentially", I mean that you'll be able to change the icons for folders and trays, so it will presumably be easy enough to add colour-coded versions of the icons. It will also be possible to flag selected folders so that they sort at the top of the list (the way the key folders currently do).

Cheers!

-- David --

Hi !

That is indeed VERY good news. My deepest congratulations for your work and for creating this nice piece of software. By the way, you did not give your opinion on the " skin module ", and I am sure lots of people would like to know it. That said, I hope the economic and financial sides of this " adventure " are doing well.

Cheers !

Ginhead.

Marc:

The reply of David Harris seems to indicate that he doesn't care about potential new users. Well, Pegasus Mail is his program and he can do with it what he wants.

Say what now... you got to be pulling my left tit right...
David has listened, and after as many years the program has been developed, he intergrated many suggestions from his users. including interfaces tweaks..

---

I can spell, I just can't type