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Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

Last post 11-16-2019, 18:14 by irelam. 9 replies.
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  •  11-14-2019, 17:19

    • Brian Fluet is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 21:46 Brian Fluet
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    Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    There was recently a discussion started by Melissa2011B complaining that clients can't read replies.  I have just started experiencing an issue with reply formatting that may be related.

    What I am experiencing is that none of the reply formatting options are working as expected.  Paragraph formatting is ignored; all lines are run together.  The only way I can get a decently formatted reply is to select the content in the original message, do a reply that includes the selected content, and then reformat paragraphs as needed (tedious!).  This doesn't happen with every message but it's not specific to a single sender either.

    What's odd is that the problem only occurs on the one instance of Pegasus Mail on which I've upgraded IERenderer and Bearhtml (this is the shared office installation of PMail; I'm not the only user affected).  A reply using the same message file on my flash drive installed PMail works as expected.

    Could either of the HTML renderer upgrades be causing the problem?  It occurs regardless which one is enabled.

     

  •  11-14-2019, 17:35

    • irelam is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 0:36 irelam
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    Brian,

      I don't think it would be Bearhtml, as it is not involved in replying or even composing messages. It sounds like it may be HTS, although it hasn't been updated through Pegasus Mail updates in a long time. Are you sending out rich-text or plain-text?

    Martin

  •  11-14-2019, 17:50

    • Brian Fluet is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 21:46 Brian Fluet
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    irelam:
    Are you sending out rich-text or plain-text?

    The behavior is the same regardless whether the option to preserve HTML formatting is enabled or not in the reply options.

  •  11-15-2019, 1:32

    • irelam is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 0:36 irelam
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    Brian,

         I cc'd Michael on my response to you, and have not yet seen a response from Michael.  Just to re-state for the record. Bearhtml has nothing to do with replys. There isn't even a API call to pass back html content to Pegasus Mail when the recipient clicks Reply or Forward.   I will leave it to Michael to clarify the IERenderer processes.

    Martin

  •  11-15-2019, 2:27

    • Brian Fluet is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 21:46 Brian Fluet
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    I have ruled out any association of my reply formatting issue with either of the renderer upgrades. 

    No clues yet as to what the problem could be.  Known at this point is that it appears specific to my shared office installation of PMail and does not occur with all replies.  When it does occur it does so regardless whether HTML formatting is included.

    Edit:  I just discovered that the problem also exists on my Win10 installation at home.  Here is something to ponder...

    When looking in Tools > Options > Outgoing Mail > Message formatting > Tabs and margins, my laptop installation contains Units options as "MM" and "Inches" but my flash drive installation only offers "Chars" as an option.  This is also the only instance that appears to be working correctly.  Anyone know what controls this?

  •  11-15-2019, 3:44

    • irelam is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 0:36 irelam
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    It should be the print driver that controls sizes and line length etc. Most printers don't have much smarts to do conversions between image dimensions etc. A quick count of characters on a line will give you that chars number. The other two dimension types have to examine the font tables to get the dimensions of a character set. Typical methods to determine sizes is to ask the print driver for the letter lowercase "a" and uppercase "M" sizes in mm or inches and/or pixel/point sizes.  Chars is just the number of characters that a line printer would be able to print on a single line. The MM and Inches you are referring to, is the actual width of a print line. The number of characters printable. So the number comes from the printer width converted to either MM or Inches divided by the average character width.

    Most of this is derived during printer setup (both width and height).

    Martin

  •  11-15-2019, 15:02

    • Brian Fluet is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 21:46 Brian Fluet
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    I just discovered that the Units options in "Tabs and margins" can be different in Identities within the same instance of PMail.  In comparing settings I found that Units is only set to  "Chars" when the "Disable all text styling options (never send styled mail' option is selected.

    During more testing I discovered that the loss of quoted content paragraph formatting in replies is Identity specific.  I felt certain that duplicating "Message formatting" settings within Identities would be the solution but no joy.

    I have 12 Identities 4 of which have the paragraph formatting problem.  As Murphy's Law would have it, the ID I use most has the problem. 

    Joy appears to be somewhere within configuration settings.  I'm still searching for it.

  •  11-16-2019, 2:46

    • Brian Fluet is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 21:46 Brian Fluet
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    I have found JOY!  Unfortunately it didn't lead to Peace. 

    Problem:  The loss of the paragraph formatting in the quoted content in replies (severity varied by message).

    Scenario:  Replies are done with the following options enabled:

    • Prefix text included from the original with '>' marker
    • Omit original message's headers
    • Use a custom header line
    • Special handling for long lines set to Reformat
    Test variable: The configuration option "Where a choice exists, display the fancy version" located in Tools | Options | Incoming mail | Message reader
     
    Test results with variable disabled:
    (note the paragraph formatting, italics added for readability)

    On 14 Nov 2019 at 15:14, Jamison XXXXX wrote:

    > Hello Brian,
    >
    > Thank you for calling XY Corporation today, my name is Jamie and it
    > was a pleasure speaking with you today.
    >
    > Please find a copy of the requested invoice attached.
    >
    > Sincerely,
    >
    > Jamison XXXXX
    > Associate Customer Specialist

     
     
    Test results with the variable enabled:
    (note the loss of paragraph formatting, italics added for readability) 
     
    On 14 Nov 2019 at 15:14, Jamison XXXXX wrote:

    >
    > Hello Brian, Thank you for calling XY Corporation today, my name is
    > Jamie and it was a pleasure speaking with you today. Please find a
    > copy of the requested invoice attached. Sincerely, Jamison XXXXX
    > Associate Customer Specialist
     
     
    Summary:  I wish I had something profound to say but I don't.  I'm befuddled by this behavior and am anxious for some of you to test this and comment.
  •  11-16-2019, 16:07

    • idw is not online. Last active: Fri, Dec 13 2019, 7:07 idw
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    Brian Fluet:
    Summary:  I wish I had something profound to say but I don't.  I'm befuddled by this behavior and am anxious for some of you to test this and comment.

    This is now in fact where the HTML renderers might come into play. If so (since I' not at home I can't test right now) it all depends on how exactly line breaks have been coded in the HTML used for the plain text quote since renderers treat plain text line breaks as blank spaces as long as a special tag doesn't keep them from doing so. And if they have been coded as CSS styles they might get lost due to BearHtml's ignorance towards those. But without doing some tests I can't even tell right now whether IER properly converts HTML conformant line breaks to plain text line breaks. And last but not least it might be the case that PM actually does the conversion itself without calling the HTML renderers at all for doing the conversion. You might easily find out by disabling both fot a test, though. (Sounds easier than it might be: IER might crash if it cannot load BearHtml as its replacement, so you might need to uninstall it before renaming BearHtml.dll.)


    Michael

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  •  11-16-2019, 18:14

    • irelam is not online. Last active: 12-12-2019, 0:36 irelam
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    Re: Do HTML renderers affect replies? I have a reply formatting issue since upgrading both.

    Brian and Michael,

         I now believe that neither renderer is involved, and place suspicion on TER/HTS running in Pegasus Mail.  I can see no logging activity in Bearhtml when replies are processed. The only test I can think to prove this is to disable both Bearhtml and IERenderer and see if the Reply function still works. The only other test I can think of is to check the content of the original message against the pre-loaded text in the reply. If Bearhtml was involved, then there should be a dramatic reduction in size when the wantCSS=no is enabled, as the SCRIPT and CSS content is completely removed from the Html stream. By dramatic reduction I mean at least 50% in size, not just a line or two.

    I will try disabling Bearhtml and not enabling IERenderer,

    Martin

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