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Gmail 421-4.7.0 (and similar gcrap issues)

Verified: once the operator fixed all their SPF's the issue disappeared.

Verified: once the operator fixed all their SPF's the issue disappeared.

Been getting more and more delayed mail and authentication check fails from gmail (and yahoo but almost no one uses that) in the past maybe two years. Things like:
  
    host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[108.177.125.27]
    said: 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or
    fails to pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users
    from spam, the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0
    https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more 421
    4.7.0 information. 22-v6si11112149pfy.169 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA
    command)
 
The problem is of course I never really know if the mail got delivered or not (in case of retries, did the mail eventually go through etc). Or to be more specific, at this point I trust gmail about as much as my neighbour's dog. 
 
And this happens to my regular email account, we are talking 1-5 mails per day here... 
 
Is there anything (easy) to do about this? Make sure you have some option on in Pegasus? Make sure your nationwide provider is doing things correctly? Make every gmail person you know add you to their whitelist :D ? 
 
<div>Been getting more and more delayed mail and authentication check fails from gmail (and yahoo but almost no one uses that) in the past maybe two years. Things like:</div><div> <span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></div><div>    host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[108.177.125.27]</div><div>    said: 421-4.7.0 This message does not have authentication information or</div><div>    fails to pass 421-4.7.0 authentication checks. To best protect our users</div><div>    from spam, the 421-4.7.0 message has been blocked. Please visit 421-4.7.0</div><div>    https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication for more 421</div><div>    4.7.0 information. 22-v6si11112149pfy.169 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA</div><div>    command)</div><div> </div><div>The problem is of course I never really know if the mail got delivered or not (in case of retries, did the mail eventually go through etc). Or to be more specific, at this point I trust gmail about as much as my neighbour's dog. </div><div> </div><div>And this happens to my regular email account, we are talking 1-5 mails per day here... </div><div> </div><div>Is there anything (easy) to do about this? Make sure you have some option on in Pegasus? Make sure your nationwide provider is doing things correctly? Make every gmail person you know add you to their whitelist :D ? </div><div> </div>

Is there any chance you could get in touch with GMail and find out from them *exactly* what it is in your messages that they're objecting to? I checked out the FAQ they mentioned,
but it's vague to the point of being useless, and unless I have some idea what they're actually objecting to, it's going to be very difficult for me either to offer any advice for dealing with
their blockage, or to provide some kind of workaround in the code.

I'm happy to consider putting some time into dealing with this, but I really have to have a much more detailed idea of what it is I have to deal with.

Any further clarification you can offer might be helpful.

Cheers!

-- David --

Is there any chance you could get in touch with GMail and find out from them *exactly* what it is in your messages that they're objecting to? I checked out the FAQ they mentioned, but it's vague to the point of being useless, and unless I have some idea what they're actually objecting to, it's going to be very difficult for me either to offer any advice for dealing with their blockage, or to provide some kind of workaround in the code. I'm happy to consider putting some time into dealing with this, but I really have to have a much more detailed idea of what it is I have to deal with. Any further clarification you can offer might be helpful. Cheers! -- David --

After thinking about this issue for a while, I developed an idea about what might be happening, so let me ask you a question: does this happen exclusively when you forward
messages without editing them first? If so, then the problem is something called "DMARC", and I can probably provide a workaround for it fairly quickly.

If it happens at other times (for instance, when sending a newly-composed message of your own, or when forwarding a message after editing it) then it's something else
and I'll still need a better idea of what GMail is objecting to... But if this suggestion matches what you've been seeing, then I can probably start working on a fix more
or less at once.

Cheers!

-- David --

<p>After thinking about this issue for a while, I developed an idea about what might be happening, so let me ask you a question: does this happen exclusively when you forward messages without editing them first? If so, then the problem is something called "DMARC", and I can probably provide a workaround for it fairly quickly. If it happens at other times (for instance, when sending a newly-composed message of your own, or when forwarding a message after editing it) then it's something else and I'll still need a better idea of what GMail is objecting to... But if this suggestion matches what you've been seeing, then I can probably start working on a fix more or less at once. </p><p>Cheers! -- David -- </p>

>Is there any chance you could get in touch with GMail and find out from them *exactly* what it is in your messages that they're objecting to? I checked out the FAQ they mentioned,
>but it's vague to the point of being useless, and unless I have some idea what they're actually objecting to, it's going to be very difficult for me either to offer any advice for dealing with
>their blockage, or to provide some kind of workaround in the code.

Looking at the experiences other people have had, discussing with gmail is not a very promising way of solving things. More like a last resort :)

Anyway, I have now spent some time investigating this so if this is an issue that pops up for more Pmail users (?), I'll be happy to help sorting it out. 

This happens with any type of messages, also new messages, so I've asked my provider about SPF records and DKIM which so far looks like the most likely culprits. They replied, in their own braindead messaging system, which doesn't contain anything... maybe it works better during weekdays... sigh.

So, will look at that first. Then I've asked one friend to help out figuring out the exact delay, a few minutes, hours or a week (or /dev/null). At best the simplest solution would be to make a filter in Pmail to just ignore the "delayed/retries" IF the messages are guaranteed to go through within a decent time period.

 Will report findings here once I have something. 

<p><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 12.096px;">>Is there any chance you could get in touch with GMail and find out from them *exactly* what it is in your messages that they're objecting to? I checked out the FAQ they mentioned,</span><br style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 12.096px;"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 12.096px;">>but it's vague to the point of being useless, and unless I have some idea what they're actually objecting to, it's going to be very difficult for me either to offer any advice for dealing with</span><br style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 12.096px;"><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 12.096px;">>their blockage, or to provide some kind of workaround in the code.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Looking at the experiences other people have had, discussing with gmail is not a very promising way of solving things. More like a last resort :)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Anyway, I have now spent some time investigating this so if this is an issue that pops up for more Pmail users (?), I'll be happy to help sorting it out. </span></p><p>This happens with any type of messages, also new messages, so I've asked my provider about SPF records and DKIM which so far looks like the most likely culprits. They replied, in their own braindead messaging system, which doesn't contain anything... maybe it works better during weekdays... sigh.</p><p>So, will look at that first. Then I've asked one friend to help out figuring out the exact delay, a few minutes, hours or a week (or /dev/null). At best the simplest solution would be to make a filter in Pmail to just ignore the "delayed/retries" IF the messages are guaranteed to go through within a decent time period.</p><p> Will report findings here once I have something.<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></p>

Etemp's issue seems not to be a general Pmail problem with Gmail addresses. Any mails, irrespective of new mails, forwarded mails or bounced mails, are being delivered to my Gmail account without any error message. Maybe other guys could state their experiences that David obtain a general overview before changing code.

Etemp's issue seems not to be a general Pmail problem with Gmail addresses. Any mails, irrespective of new mails, forwarded mails or bounced mails, are being delivered to my Gmail account without any error message. Maybe other guys could state their experiences that David obtain a general overview before changing code.

I'm not having any Gmail problems either.  In fact, Gmail is my only SMTP account that allows me to bounce messages. Zoho and Outlook don't.


<p>I'm not having any Gmail problems either.  In fact, Gmail is my only SMTP account that allows me to bounce messages. Zoho and Outlook don't.</p><p> </p>

Is it possible that the IP range the OP is assigned by their ISP is on a blacklist?

Is it possible that the IP range the OP is assigned by their ISP is on a blacklist?

[quote user="Greenman"]Is it possible that the IP range the OP is assigned by their ISP is on a blacklist?[/quote]

 Please do not use IPv6 with GMail. GMail filters with IPv6 completely different and extremely rigeros.

 

 

<p>[quote user="Greenman"]Is it possible that the IP range the OP is assigned by their ISP is on a blacklist?[/quote]</p><p> <span id="result_box" class="" lang="en"><span class="">Please do not use IPv6 with GMail.</span> <span class="">GMail filters with IPv6 completely different and extremely rigeros.</span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p>

Ok, the good news is, this apparently needs no fixes in Pmail :D .

Seems like gmail tightening their policies has caught operators quite off guard. The largest (or second largest) operator I'm using in Finland has been fixing their SPF records on all servers for weeks now (would have been nice to know about it instead of coming here asking if other people are having trouble, oh well). For once googling did have the correct answer (although only in a few places as so few people understood the 421-4.7.0 issue in a technical sense).

 Maybe the 14h mail delays will finally go away "soon". 

 

Nice to see the community still works and David is as vigilant as ever. After 25+ years with Pmail I'll shoot myself the day I have to switch to gmail or outlook for good.

<p>Ok, the good news is, this apparently needs no fixes in Pmail :D .</p><p>Seems like gmail tightening their policies has caught operators quite off guard. The largest (or second largest) operator I'm using in Finland has been fixing their SPF records on all servers for weeks now (would have been nice to know about it instead of coming here asking if other people are having trouble, oh well). For once googling did have the correct answer (although only in a few places as so few people understood the 421-4.7.0 issue in a technical sense).</p><p> Maybe the 14h mail delays will finally go away "soon". </p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Nice to see the community still works and David is as vigilant as ever. After 25+ years with Pmail I'll shoot myself the day I have to switch to gmail or outlook for good.</span></p>
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