When you say "All my PND files are in the PMAIL\MAIL directory" are you talking about C:\PMAIL\MAIL or A:\PMAIL\MAIL?? In my test the original Mail directory was C:\PMAIL\Mail\Jill and the moved location was C:\PMAIL\MAIL\JILL2 so both using same drive letter.

In your case the original mail directory would be (I believe) C:\PMAIL\MAIL and the new location A:
\PMAIL\MAIL. So need specifics on which directory has the PND files?

Just to note: Does your PMAIL.INI file have
Internal username = Single-user mode

That is what my regular setup of Pegasus has. The setup with Admin, Jack, and Jill is just a test one?

What files are in your C:\PMAIL\MAIL directory and what does C:\PMAIL\MAIL\PMAIL.USR contain.
In mine it has:
; PMAIL.USR Pegasus Mail user database.
A;Admin;Mail Administrator

And my C:\PMAIL\Programs\PMAIL.CFG has
C:\PMAIL\MAIL (bunch of NULLS) C:\PMAIL\MAIL

With multi-user PMAIL.CFG has
C:\PMAIL\MAIL~N (bunch of NULLS) C:\PMAIL\MAIL~N

In multi-user the PMAIL.INI has
Internal username = Jack
In my test setup (Admin or Jack or Jill)

All that is assuming the Pegasus was installed in the C:\PMAIL directory.

As I said in my notes above: everything for me is in the A: drive. A:\PMAIL and then A:\PMAIL\MAIL and then as needed A:\PMAIL\MAIL\Admin....

I like keeping Peg separate from Windows for security, backup and recovery purposes.

And, big picture -without going through all these trouble-shooting and somewhat time consuming solutions, the bottom line is, it works fine in v 4.80 (I have been using this in Win 11 for over a year now). As it has using this installation scheme and upgrades for over 10 years. All this points IMHO to something possibly obscure that has changed with 4.81.

I appreciate the help, guidance, and try to contribute but I am working full time, this is my daily driver and there are limits to what I can realistically do. I will play with it when I get time. Maybe I will do a full clean install and watch how it behaves, noting what goes where, and then once that is stable, bring over the old Mail directory. Thanks to all on this.

OK, it has been resolved. To answer @Brian why I have the Home directory seperate from the New Mail directory, indeed, it was not intentional. I have had this setup for a long time, copying files from old PCs to new ones. I have copied the .PND files to the New Mail directory and now all is fine. The definitions are there after exiting and restarting PMAIL. The strange thing is that this was not necessary for older versions of PMAIL. Thanks for your help!!

The questions are now:

• How did the .PND files got in the Home mailbox directory?
• Why is this a problem with 4.81 but not with 4.80?

I will send these questions to David now that we have identified the cause.

@Eruption, do you know or can you tell by their date/time stamp whether Pegasus Mail put them there or whether you placed them there during a copy from another PC?

@Eruption, I can't thank you enough for your help with this. I am hopeful that it will lead David to a solution.

Two quick things.

1. Glad we found a temporary solution that seems to work.
2. Seems the PND files get placed in the moved Mail directory after the move process is done. This is also the files that will get updated from Pegasus. As a test edited the smtp setup, and just changed the port from 25 to 26. Afterwards I checked, and the one in the moved directory was changed (JILL2) but the one in the original Directory (Jill) still had the previously copied PND file with port 25 still.

So, it would seem that Pegasus on start is looking for the PND files to be in the original C:\PMAIL\MAIL or C:\PMAIL\MAIL\user directory and if doesn't find them, it disappears from the PMAIL.INI file. But the program actually is using the files from the moved folder (C:\PMAIL\MAIL\JILL2 or A:\PMAIL\MAIL).

If you every make changes to the PND files, you will probable need to recopy info just to be sure.

Without knowing code, would be hard to say why it worked in 4.80 but not in 4.81. Could be a simple change in a line of code in how it determines the location to look for files.

Sure only Mr. Harris will be able to find a complete solution of why the issue occurred with update.

Glad work around for now....

He has asked me to let you know that he is looking into it and if a correction is required he will include it in the final release of 4.81.

IMHO, I think 4.81 is working correctly and that previous versions should not have been looking in the Home mailbox directory for POP3 and SMTP definition files. As for how they got there, I believe it is clear to him the concern over whether Pegasus Mail could have created them there.

@Eruption, .PND files have an associated .PM3 file. This file keeps track of downloaded messages. You should copy that folder to your New mailbox directory as well. Each .PND file contains the filename of its .PM3 file (Memfile).

Just to point out 4.81 is using the PND files in the moved directory.
Did a change of port on my test Jill user, and the one in the moved to directory was changed.
The one in the original C:\PMAIL\MAIL\Jill directory was unchanged.

Just did a test.
In the original C:\PMAIL\MAIL\Jill folder blanked out both PND files

2 Feb 2 11:45 POPWP22Z.PND
2 Feb 2 11:45 SMTDB8XO.PND

just contain CR LF

Started Pegasus 4.81 pb3 and it corrently shows the internet options there, and edit shows info from moved location.

Also, tried making files 0 bytes and still works, so just existence is ok.

Did find that if you remove files, from original directory and start Pegasus the links disappear.
Putting the files back, doesn't restore them. Have to manually add them again, but is just selecting the files after add. All data remains.

Am only guessing, but would seem that 4.80 must have check for the location of mail directory before doing the update of the PMAIL.INI, and 4.81 must be doing the update to check for PND files being in the original location, but then actually uses the PND files from the moved location.

Could be line of code in different order, or perhaps if using threads that the one is happening before the other in 4.81.

Could also be a compiler optimization that causes issue. Sometimes compilers over optimize things.

Took the plunge last night and did a fresh install, using the 4.81b2. Forcing all to A:. Looking carefully at what goes where, in my case, this might be an issue: when I look at my current 4.80 backup, these files are in A:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN

Everything else related to settings and mail folders is up one level in the A:\PMAIL\MAIL directory

It is a little difficult to tell but it's possible this structure is different in a fresh install. And the 4.81 upgrade might reflect that. In particular, my PMAIL.INI file is in the lower ADMIN subdirectory.

I tried to move a few files up from Admin to the Mail directory, in particular the PMAIL.INI alone, and then also with the 2 CNM files but it did not work. Clearly there are all sorts of dependencies involved that are way beyond my pay grade.

So just guessing here that possibly having transferred Pegasus from 3 computers over the years, the file structure might have changed over time. Fairly certain that with each new PC, I did a one time fresh install, and then just copied the entire MAIL directory (with Admin nested) from a backup to the new machine. Whether or not this was the best way, it has worked flawlessly for easily 10+ years. And certainly the upgrades over the past 5 years when I bought my latest PC has never been a problem.

Only speculating that some change in the upgrade process in 4.81 is not finding or copying a few files from/to their locations as configured on my PC. Again, as this has never been an issue over multiple machines and many years, it's thrown me.

So, one key question is: what files should be in the MAIL\ADMIN directory, vs the MAIL directory?

In my case, at the moment, there are only a few files as you can see in the ADMIN directory. The vast majority of files etc. are one level up. If this is a potential source of the problem, it looks like just moving a few to some more "standard" location might sort this. If I knew precisely which, this might be easily resolved. The obvious suspects: the PMAIL.INI, a few PND files, maybe one or 2 others?

Appreciate the patience and help a number have devoted to this. I'm doing what I can with limited skills. I surely want to resolve this to prepare for eventual release of v 5.0. Thanks

It depends on what type of installation you did when did the clean installation (Preconfigure a mailbox?, Single user? Multi user?)

When you select the "preconfigure a mailbox" option or do a multi-user installation, the \Mail directory will only contain:

• A subdirectory named Admin
• A PMAIL.USR file

In a single-user test installation test that I did of a v4.7x version (don't remember which one), neither the \Admin subdirectory not the PMAIL.USR file were created in \Mail. The \Mail directory was the mailbox directory.

When doing a clean installation where you want to use data from a previous installation it is important to be attentive to the type of installation you do. If your mailbox directory is a subdirectory of \Mail then you always want to do a multi-user installation, even if there will only be one user.

For sure I did a preconfig but put in just minimal data. Then I just replaced the entire MAIL directory with my backup. This also replaced Admin and the PMAIL.USR file. But have always just been a single user, and all the mail data has never been a subdirectory of MAIL.

So I think we are on the same page here. Which partly explains why having done this on 3 machines during well over 10 years, it has never been a problem.

However, once a single user has been fully configured, then where should the PMAIL.INI file sit? Mine sits in \MAIL\Admin...as I showed in the screenshot above. There are only the few other possibly related files. Otherwise, everything else Mail related sits in my \MAIL directory.
There were slight discrepencies with a few more files sitting in \Admin when I looked at the fresh install. But these could easily get moved over during a full configuration. And again, it just seems logical if something were really out of sorts, these would have showed up over the last 10 years.

Still not quiet sure we have a grip on this, but I can't really do more right now. We'll see what happens with future builds. Thanks.

There are a lot of moving parts to this. The ideal solution is to get the Home and the New mailbox locations into the same directory. Post back if this is something that you want to pursue. I suggest doing it in the 4.80 installation. Once it is working you can then back it up and try the 4.81 public beta (there is no reason to try 4.81 if you aren't accessing a Gmail account).

Have no need for the Gmail bit. And yes as you say, lots of moving parts. A fair bit of the problem is language and terms; I actually think I am set up correctly and only have a single home mailbox.

I do want to be sure all ok so yes, maybe we should take this private and not clutter up the thread here. We could swap emails? If so how best to do this?

A shortcoming of this forum software is the lack of private message capability.
Are you subscribed to either of the support listserv lists (PMAIL or PM-Win)? Email addresses are visible there but only to subscribed members.

It is possible to change a setup from
Internal username = Single-user mode
to
Internal username = Admin

Did it once as a test just to see what it would take to do it.

In Single-user mode the C:\PMAIL\MAIL directory contains everything for the single user,
but there is an C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN directory (it just contains basic start files)

The differences are as I've found minor, but would always recommend full backup.
First, the C:\PMAIL\Programs\PMAIL.CFG file needs to be modified.
Using PCONFIG32.EXE
In Single-user setup it contains C:\PMAIL\MAILC:\PMAIL\MAIL
Special note: That is a NULL padded file, so use program to modify.

On a Multi-user setup (Even it only have 1 user)
It contains C:\PMAIL\MAIL~NC:\PMAIL\MAIL~N
Special note: NULL padded

This then uses the C:\PMAIL\MAIL\identity folder for mail.

In single-user mode all files go in C:\PMAIL\MAIL has all files.
PMAIL.USR contains
; PMAIL.USR Pegasus Mail user database.
A;Admin;Mail Administrator

In multi-user mode C:\PMAIL\MAIL only contains the file PMAIL.USR and subdirectories for each user. In my test setup it has. Not sure why earlier one has comment and new one doesn't?
A;Admin;Mail Administrator
U;Jack;Jack Hill
U;Jill;Jill Hill

So directory has
ADMIN (Directory for default Admin User)
Jack (Directory for user Jack)
Jill (Original Directory for Jill)
JILL2 (Move mailbox to directory for Jill)
PMAIL.USR

To convert from single-user to multi-user with Admin, it is just moving all files except PMAIL.USR to C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN.
So, just modifying PMAIL.CFG changing it to change from single-user to multi-user, and then relocating files from C:\PMAIL\MAIL to C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN except PMAIL.USR.

One last thing. PMAIL.INI file needs to be manually modified to point to correct locations.
Lines that have C:\PMAIL\MAIL could change to C:\PMAIL\MAIL\Admin

Might just be these two, but could have others??
Working home mailbox location = C:\PMAIL\MAIL\Admin
New mailbox location = C:\PMAIL\MAIL\Admin

I opted to just leave it as single-user mode setup, but was concerned an update might no longer support that setup, so wanted to know how to do it. But so far no issues with keeping it when doing an upgrade.

Was interesting to figure out, if of no value to others..
Hope you come up with what best works for you.

This is contrary to my single-user install test. I wonder if a change has been made to the installer. What version did you use?

AFAIK, the existence of a PMAIL.USR file indicates multi-user. There is no reason for it to exist in a single-user installation.

I think there might have been a change at some point.
I've been using Pegasus since the DOS version on Novell server.
Once moved to Windows versions, have generally always done upgrades, so would assume it might setup a single user differently with later versions versus updates.

But my files have always been located in the C:\PMAIL\MAIL directory
In my test some time ago, believe I did a clean install, and then just copied all the files from C:\PMAIL\MAIL to the C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN on other machine, but it was some time ago.
Compared the original PMAIL.INI file with the one I had copied, and just had to change the C:\PMAIL\MAIL lines to C:\PMAIL\MAIL\Admin

Don't know if one could change the default name from Admin or if that is fixed.

Recall Win 3 didn't have option for multi-users (I believe), and earlier DOS was single user. Know Pegasas Dos allowed multi-users with Novell network since it tied into the Novell Bindery or Later Novell NDS to use the networks mail directory setup. Had an old Novell 2.2 server with 12M Ram with 650M SCSI drive that had like 1300+ user accounts. Only had 100 licenses, had less than that physical machines. Was a 25Mhz 386. Believe machine had 16M physical ram, but Novell 2.2 maxed out at 12M. Later Novell 4.x severs went much higher.

So, it might be that Mr. Harris changed the single user new installation, but upgrades can still handle the older installs.

Will have to do a clean install on one of my other machine and see what it does in the PMAIL.CFG and PMAIL.INI file.

Did a clean install on another machine.
Seems that the PMAIL.CFG defaults to have the C:\PMAIL\MAIL~N so that wouldn't need to be changed.

Originally, looked at C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN and it was still empty since Pegasus hadn't be opened yet to try and set it up.

At this point, should have just copied all files my other machines C:\PMAIL\MAIL directory into the C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN
Then only steps needed would be to remove the PMAIL.USR since new one in C:\PMAIL\MAIL would be valid one.
The open PMAIL.INI and do search and replace.
C:\PMAIL\MAIL change all to C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN

Those steps would have done it, but of course that's not what I originally did, so had to fix some things.

Had opened Pegasus to go thru basic setup to see what it put in C:\PMAIL\MAIL\ADMIN
Basic files and folders.
Then copied all files.
Had some issue with these files.
Basic.pnc
black.pml
copyself.pmm
copyself.pmi
junk.pmm
junk.pmi
main.pmm
main.pmi
spambust.dat
white.pml
words4.db3

Most where that on my setup, I've set all filenames to all caps, while Pegasus had created files with lower case names. So simple a case of deleting lowercase pmm and pmi files. If names would have been same case, would have to use option to overwrite files versus keeping newer files.

Some of the other files were exactly the same.
Only basic.pnc file was different and words4.db3.
Think both deal with spamhaulter, so minor.
diff basic.pnc BASIC.PNC

diff basic.pnc BASIC.PNC 
 1,3c1,3
< Enabled = N
< SetName = Basic Spam Detection
< Blacklist = black.pml
---
> Enabled = Y
> SetName = Added Spam Finding
> Blacklist = BLACK.PML
 7,8c7,8
< Parameter = Junk or suspicious mail
< RuleFile = spambust.dat
---
> Parameter = spam
> RuleFile = C:\PMAIL\MAIL\spamadd.dat
 11c11,12
< Flags = 28
---
> MaxSize = 1000
> Flags = 29
 13d13
<

The words4.db3 seems to be a database that spamhaulter creates.
The clean install creates a basically empty version, while the copied one has lots of things??

Opened Pegasus and everything comes up with the right folders...
Interesting...

I did read this full post in detail but scanned it for some important context that I did not see (I apologize if I missed it). The important context is the options that you chose during installation.

1. The "Preconfigure a mailbox" option will affect installation behavior.
2. If the "Preconfigure a mailbox" option was not selected, choosing the single-user option will result in a different installation than choosing the multi-user option.

These options are very important when talking about a clean installation. The choices are really important when there is intent on copying content from a previous installation.

This discussion has gotten really long and way off topic. I think it would be best to start a new one if any additional installer discussion is desired.

Just to answer this question, I have several previous host definitions in the MAIL directory, the date/time stamps are all different so no insight there I am afraid. One thing is for sure, I did not have the problem with my previous version of PMAIL and did not move any individual files when I upgraded to v. 4.81. I copied files to the same location as before.

Thanks again for your help

Just for the record - Brian suggested a way to move all my mail data and folder over from \MAIL to \MAIL\Admin and all now smooth sailing.

Some minor tweaks needed in the PMAIL.INI file but easily done. Seems to have solved the problem. He has a detailed instruction list should anyone need it. Kudos Brian.

Sorry this went so deeply off the rails and how it possibly flagged an obscure bug that has not affected 99% of users. Pegasus remains an extremely robust system, easily repaired and backed up, and this little safari has proven it again. Cheers to all for the help.