insert versus overtype

Michael

posted Mar 16 '14 at 1:26 pm

[quote user="KSQR"]Are the "nice to have" feature suggestions reviewed by the Beta Members who prioritize those they find worthy and pass them to David for possible inclusion in his "to-do" list?[/quote]

You're free to contact him yourself, his email address can be found on the The History of Pegasus Mail page of the help file.

[quote user="KSQR"]Are the "nice to have" feature suggestions reviewed by the Beta Members who prioritize those they find worthy and pass them to David for possible inclusion in his "to-do" list?[/quote]You're free to contact him yourself, his email address can be found on the The History of Pegasus Mail page of the help file.

			Michael
--
IERenderer's Homepage
PGP Key ID (RSA 2048): 0xC45D831B
S/MIME Fingerprint: 94C6B471 0C623088 A5B27701 742B8666 3B7E657C

inschris

posted Oct 3 '09 at 10:12 am

Greetings all! During typing of a message, you can toggle between "insert" and "overtype" by means of the "insert" key on the keyboard. I am not a fully-skilled typist. Therefore I sometimes accidentally and unconsciously hit the insert key, and then find I have toggled to "overtype" and wiped out some of my earlier typing, instead of inserting characters.

I am sure the development team are very busy, but I think it will be helpful if there is some visible indication whether you are on "insert" or on "overtype". For example, in the DOS accessory programme EDIT the blinking cursor at the insertion point changes between an underline and a full-character highlight.

Good luck to the development team with all efforts.

Greetings all!&nbsp; During typing of a message, you can toggle between "insert" and "overtype" by means of the "insert" key on the keyboard.&nbsp; I am not a fully-skilled typist.&nbsp; Therefore I sometimes accidentally and unconsciously hit the insert key, and then find I have toggled to "overtype" and wiped out some of my earlier typing, instead of inserting characters. I am sure the development team are very busy, but I think it will be helpful if there is some visible indication whether you are on "insert" or on "overtype".&nbsp; For example, in the DOS accessory programme EDIT the blinking cursor at the insertion point changes between an underline and&nbsp; a full-character highlight.&nbsp;Good luck to the development team with all efforts.

Christopher Muñoz

posted Oct 7 '09 at 10:54 pm

Actually, I doubt that you yourself are the culprit here.

It's been my experience with the current version of the PMail message editor that it sometimes just goes off on its own into typeover mode, for no apparent reason that I can discern. Surely it's some combination of input events that sets it off, but I don't know just which. Yes, it's annoying, but less so when one expects it to happen from time to time, and in consideration that David H. doesn't have all that much to choose from, for a reasonably capable message editor for which the license is affordable.

There are also other annoyances, such as its penchant for bollixing up paragraph and between-paragraph blank line formatting when a line ends with a full stop at or very near the right-side margin, and the spellchecker still can't reliably handle apostrophes in possessives, although it's somewhat improved from the previous edition. Quoted text, when reformatted, sometimes goes off into hyperspace, also.

Sigh . . .

But we do have to keep in mind the limited resources available, and accept that perfection always is elusive.

Actually, I doubt that you yourself are the culprit here.&nbsp; It's been my experience with the current version of the PMail message editor that it sometimes just goes off on its own into typeover mode, for no apparent reason that I can discern.&nbsp; Surely it's some combination of input events that sets it off, but I don't know just which.&nbsp; Yes, it's annoying, but less so when one expects it to happen from time to time, and in consideration that David H. doesn't have all that much to choose from, for a reasonably capable message editor for which the license is affordable.&nbsp; There are also other annoyances, such as its penchant for bollixing up paragraph and between-paragraph blank line formatting when a line ends with a full stop at or very near the right-side margin, and the spellchecker still can't reliably handle apostrophes in possessives, although it's somewhat improved from the previous edition.&nbsp; Quoted text, when reformatted, sometimes goes off into hyperspace, also.&nbsp; Sigh . . . &nbsp;But we do have to keep in mind the limited resources available, and accept that perfection always is elusive.&nbsp; &nbsp;

KSQR

posted Feb 13 '14 at 6:58 am

[quote user="Christopher Muñoz"]

Actually, I doubt that you yourself are the culprit here.

It's been my experience with the current version of the PMail message editor that it sometimes just goes off on its own into typeover mode, for no apparent reason that I can discern. Surely it's some combination of input events that sets it off, but I don't know just which.

[/quote]

Has anyone else had this experience?

KSQR

[quote user="Christopher Muñoz"]Actually, I doubt that you yourself are the culprit here.&nbsp; It's been my experience with the current version of the PMail message editor that it sometimes just goes off on its own into typeover mode, for no apparent reason that I can discern.&nbsp; Surely it's some combination of input events that sets it off, but I don't know just which.&nbsp;[/quote]Has anyone else had this experience?KSQR

Christopher Muñoz

posted Feb 17 '14 at 1:35 am

I'm not sure I'd qualify as "anyone else", but after having changed computers thrice since my original October 2009 posting -- upgrades from ThinkPad T43 to T43p to T61p and thence to W510 -- the issue continues, unabated.

Although it's possible that this is a ThinkPad issue, I doubt it. More likely it's a chronic message editor issue. I should clarify that for me it occurs only in text editing, since I do not compose or send HTML / fancy email messages.

As for others not having reported this, I don't know: perhaps they don't notice, or rather think it's a keyboarding / typing error (which it is not).

- Christopher Muñoz

I'm not sure I'd qualify as "anyone else", but after having changed computers thrice since my original October 2009 posting -- upgrades from ThinkPad T43 to T43p to T61p and thence to W510 -- the issue continues, unabated. &nbsp; Although it's possible that this is a ThinkPad issue, I doubt it.&nbsp; More likely it's a chronic message editor issue.&nbsp; I should clarify that for me it occurs only in text editing, since I do not compose or send HTML / fancy email messages. &nbsp; As for others not having reported this, I don't know: perhaps they don't notice, or rather think it's a keyboarding / typing error (which it is not). &nbsp; - Christopher Muñoz

KSQR

posted Feb 28 '14 at 6:04 pm

[quote user="Christopher Muñoz"]As for others not having reported this, I don't know: perhaps they don't notice, or rather think it's a keyboarding / typing error (which it is not).
[/quote]

Perhaps the insert vs overtype problem will be fixed in the 4.70 release.

KSQR

[quote user="Christopher Muñoz"]As for others not having reported this, I don't know: perhaps they don't notice, or rather think it's a keyboarding / typing error (which it is not).&nbsp; [/quote]Perhaps the insert vs overtype problem will be fixed in the 4.70 release.KSQR &nbsp;

Christopher Muñoz

posted Mar 3 '14 at 2:44 am

It's a thought, but I wouldn't hold my breath. More likely than not this is one or another species of odd occurrence cases -- I don't know the proper assurance testing term for it -- which, I'm told, can be devilishly hard to find.

My understanding is that PMail message composition still is being handled by the TER editor, a licensed product from the Texas company Sub Systems, Inc.. It is proprietary software.

As I recall it, a few PMail editions ago a donation was received for the purchase of a new license which also included a custom bug fix for something or other which had been a PMail impediment. (Any of you out there who can correct this foggy recollection, by all means jump in.)

So if my hunch is correct, and if this still is more or less the situation, then I'd say that those (few) of us who mutter about unintended overtyping may need to just continue to mutter into our teacups (or beer steins, or whatevers).

- Christopher Muñoz

It's a thought, but I wouldn't hold my breath.&nbsp; More likely than not this is one or another species of odd occurrence cases -- I don't know the proper assurance testing term for it -- which, I'm told, can be devilishly hard to find.&nbsp; My understanding is that PMail message composition still is being handled by the TER editor, a licensed product from the Texas company Sub Systems, Inc.. It is proprietary software.&nbsp; As I recall it, a few PMail editions ago a donation was received for the purchase of a new license which also included a custom bug fix for something or other which had been a PMail impediment. (Any of you out there who can correct this foggy recollection, by all means jump in.)&nbsp; So if my hunch is correct, and if this still is more or less the situation, then I'd say that those (few) of us who mutter about unintended overtyping may need to just continue to mutter into our teacups (or beer steins, or whatevers).&nbsp; - Christopher Muñoz &nbsp;

Christopher Muñoz

posted Mar 4 '14 at 6:54 pm

This just in, news from the front:

So here I was, typing / keyboarding along yesterday (Monday) afternoon, inserting some text into the middle of a pre-existing text block in a PMail reply message,

when . . .

. . . the input text abruptly switched from insert to overtype mode.

Annoying . . .

My typing skills are, well, unexceptional (and that's being kind). What I do know is that just before the input flipped, I had stumbled into either the left-side Fn or CTL or ALT key. Yet the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy may be applicable here as well.

What I also do know is that I've never seen this phenomenon in any other program I use. So I doubt that it's a ThinkPad or OS issue.

On a scale of cosmological to quantum level, this issue is, well, somewhat downscale. If someone were to think of stepping forward to fund a reworking of the editor, my priority vote -- if I had one -- would be for the addressing of the other formatting issues first, as reported in an earlier post.

Since I do not use HTML / fancy text, I can't say whether or not this issue tracks there as well or not, but I'd expect that it would.

- Christopher Muñoz

This just in, news from the front: So here I was, typing / keyboarding along yesterday (Monday) afternoon, inserting some text into the middle of a pre-existing text block in a PMail reply message, when . . . &nbsp;. . . the input text abruptly switched from insert to overtype mode.&nbsp; Annoying . . . My typing skills are, well, unexceptional (and that's being kind).&nbsp; What I do know is that just before the input flipped, I had stumbled into either the left-side Fn or CTL or ALT key.&nbsp; Yet the "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" fallacy may be applicable here as well.&nbsp; What I also do know is that I've never seen this phenomenon in any other program I use.&nbsp; So I doubt that it's a ThinkPad or OS issue.&nbsp; On a scale of cosmological to quantum level, this issue is, well, somewhat downscale.&nbsp; If someone were to think of stepping forward to fund a reworking of the editor, my priority vote -- if I had one -- would be for the addressing of the other formatting issues first, as reported in an earlier post.&nbsp;&nbsp; Since I do not use HTML / fancy text, I can't say whether or not this issue tracks there as well or not, but I'd expect that it would.&nbsp; - Christopher Muñoz

KSQR

posted Mar 7 '14 at 5:24 pm

[quote user="inschris"]

... I think it will be helpful if there is some visible indication whether you are on "insert" or on "overtype".

[/quote]

Helpful indeed. In some text editors the "overtype" indication is made by changing the thin blinking piping type symbol cursor. Among others I have seen a wider blinking piping type symbol and a blinking underscore.

KQSR

[quote user="inschris"]... I think it will be helpful if there is some visible indication whether you are on "insert" or on "overtype". [/quote]Helpful indeed. In some text editors the "overtype" indication is made by changing the thin blinking piping type symbol cursor.&nbsp; Among others I have seen a wider blinking piping type symbol and a blinking underscore.KQSR &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

irelam

posted Mar 8 '14 at 6:11 pm

The problem is that there is no easy way to establish the current setting. The Insert key just reports it keycode to the current application with focus. The application can then change the cursor or caret as required (or not).

I do not see any way to modify the TER editor via API etc which will visualize the current setting.

See Microsoft article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/96210

Martin

The problem is that there is no easy way to establish the current setting. The Insert key just reports it keycode to the current application with focus. The application can then change the cursor or caret as required (or not).&nbsp;I do not see any way to modify the TER editor via API etc which will visualize the current setting.&nbsp;See Microsoft article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/96210&nbsp;Martin&nbsp;

Christopher Muñoz

posted Mar 8 '14 at 7:22 pm

We may be conflating two related but not fully congruent "annoyance issues" here.

- issue #1: that TER seems to "go off" from time to time, for reasons unknown, flipping from insert to overtype mode (I don't know about the converse, since I haven't seen it yet);

- issue #2: that TER does not present a visual indication of which mode it's in.

Only a few hours after posting on March 4th, I had two more "flipover" occurrences within the same hour. Now established that they are unconnected with ham-fingered FN-CTL-ALT keyboarding, but I have no other light to shed, either.

This again reminds of the several years ago discussion thread re. the future of TER within PMail. As I recall it, HTML message composition was discussed at that time as well, and perhaps even before, as now revisited in the

http://community.pmail.com/forums/thread/40285.aspx: Making messages fancier?

thread. I'll post over there about that.

- Christopher Muñoz

We may be conflating two related but not fully congruent "annoyance issues" here. &nbsp; - issue #1:&nbsp; that TER seems to "go off" from time to time, for reasons unknown, flipping from insert to overtype mode (I don't know about the converse, since I haven't seen it yet); - issue #2:&nbsp; that TER does not present a visual indication of which mode it's in. &nbsp; Only a few hours after posting on March 4th, I had two more "flipover" occurrences within the same hour.&nbsp; Now established that they are unconnected with ham-fingered FN-CTL-ALT keyboarding, but I have no other light to shed, either. &nbsp; This again reminds of the several years ago discussion thread re. the future of TER within PMail.&nbsp; As I recall it, HTML message composition was discussed at that time as well, and perhaps even before, as now revisited in the http://community.pmail.com/forums/thread/40285.aspx:&nbsp; Making messages fancier?&nbsp; thread.&nbsp; I'll post over there about that. &nbsp; - Christopher Muñoz &nbsp;

KSQR

posted Mar 15 '14 at 10:22 pm

[quote user="irelam"]

The problem is that there is no easy way to establish the current setting. The Insert key just reports it keycode to the current application with focus. The application can then change the cursor or caret as required (or not).

I do not see any way to modify the TER editor via API etc which will visualize the current setting.

See Microsoft article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/96210

Martin

[/quote]

Is the TER editor written, at least partially, in Visual Basic?

The TER editor was written by Sub Systems, Inc. On their web page, it appears that the licensing can include the DLL Source. Assuming that is the case for PMail, would it be a major task to modify the source code to add a cursor or caret change when in the overwrite mode and recompile?

KQSR

[quote user="irelam"]The problem is that there is no easy way to establish the current setting. The Insert key just reports it keycode to the current application with focus. The application can then change the cursor or caret as required (or not).&nbsp;I do not see any way to modify the TER editor via API etc which will visualize the current setting.&nbsp;See Microsoft article: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/96210&nbsp;Martin&nbsp;[/quote]Is the TER editor written, at least partially, in Visual Basic? The TER editor was written by Sub Systems, Inc.&nbsp; On their web page, it appears that the licensing can include the DLL Source. Assuming that is the case for PMail, would it be a major task to modify the source code to add a cursor or caret change when in the overwrite mode and recompile? KQSR &nbsp;

Michael

posted Mar 15 '14 at 10:33 pm

[quote user="KSQR"]Is the TER editor written, at least partially, in Visual Basic?[/quote]

C, not VB. And it looks like it would be rather easy to modify, but I doubt it's a really pressing issue for the majority of users, so it would be just added to the excessive list of "nice to have" features in Pegasus Mail ...

[quote user="KSQR"]Is the TER editor written, at least partially, in Visual Basic?[/quote] C, not VB. And it <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms648399(v=vs.85).aspx" mce_href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms648399(v=vs.85).aspx" target="_blank">looks like it would be rather easy</a> to modify, but I doubt it's a really pressing issue for the majority of users, so it would be just added to the excessive list of "nice to have" features in Pegasus Mail ...

			Michael
--
IERenderer's Homepage
PGP Key ID (RSA 2048): 0xC45D831B
S/MIME Fingerprint: 94C6B471 0C623088 A5B27701 742B8666 3B7E657C

KSQR

posted Mar 16 '14 at 2:41 am

[quote user="idw"][quote user="KSQR"]Is the TER editor written, at least partially, in Visual Basic?[/quote]

C, not VB. And it looks like it would be rather easy to modify, but I doubt it's a really pressing issue for the majority of users, so it would be just added to the excessive list of "nice to have" features in Pegasus Mail ...

[/quote]

Thanks for the information.

Until this intermittent Insert-Overwrite problem, I rarely used the Overwrite mode. When I did, I made a conscious decision to do so. Now when I find that I'm using it, it's when I review what I have written. Rather than seeing this as a "nice to have" feature, how about looking at it as a tool to help in chasing down this annoying problem?

Are the "nice to have" feature suggestions reviewed by the Beta Members who prioritize those they find worthy and pass them to David for possible inclusion in his "to-do" list? Other?

KQSR

[quote user="idw"][quote user="KSQR"]Is the TER editor written, at least partially, in Visual Basic?[/quote] C, not VB. And it <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms648399(v=vs.85).aspx" mce_href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms648399(v=vs.85).aspx" target="_blank">looks like it would be rather easy</a> to modify, but I doubt it's a really pressing issue for the majority of users, so it would be just added to the excessive list of "nice to have" features in Pegasus Mail ...[/quote]Thanks for the information. Until this intermittent Insert-Overwrite problem, I rarely used the Overwrite mode.&nbsp; When I did, I made a conscious decision to do so.&nbsp; Now when I find that I'm using it, it's when I review what I have written.&nbsp; Rather than seeing this as a "nice to have" feature, how about looking at it as a tool to help in chasing down this annoying problem? Are the "nice to have" feature suggestions reviewed by the Beta Members who prioritize those they find worthy and pass them to David for possible inclusion in his "to-do" list?&nbsp; Other? KQSR &nbsp;

Related Topics

Pending draft

Confirm move posts

Insufficient permissions

Select a different topic

Edit history