Dear David,

[quote user="David Harris"]Looking at the code, there is definitely message-id generation going on in Pegasus Mail,[/quote]

That's correct (but not the point in discussion about Mercury/32 and creating MIDs)  ...

[quote]although for some reason it's controlled by the setting of an internal system flag, and I can't see clearly what the default value of that flag would be. There also doesn't seem to be anywhere in the UI to change it, although it *appears* that it should always be turned on by default.[/quote]

... if you want Pegasus to create a MID. For some reasons we don't Pegasus want to do it (see other posting in same thread).

The default value of "general system flags" is 0. Via UI you may only change it to 1 by activating session logging. I suppose default is 0, because otherwise SYSLOG.PM will increase endless.

[quote]Suggest to him (not as a solution, just as a curiosity) that he look in his PMAIL.INI file and find the entry called "General system flags": it can have the values 0, 1, 2, or 3. If it's 3, tell him to set it to 1. If it's 2, tell him to set it to 0. This will tell the program to generate message IDs. On my system, it has the value "1", which turns on system message logging. If it was a value other than 1 or 0, could you let me know?[/quote]

I know all about that flag and it was 2 - as wanted!!! But that's not the point in that thread and I think, there is no need for you to change anything on that in the code of Pegasus. Works fine and as designed! The changes should be done in Mercury/32 for the case, that no MID is in a mail from a local user to a local user.

[quote]Should definitely be working, though.[/quote]

It does ... as designed by you. [:D]

@Thomas

[quote user="Thomas R. Stephenson"]I've set the flags to 1 and it's creating a message-id for mail to local users when mail is sent via MercuryS using the built-in mailer.  Here's the raw view as received.[/quote]

I know ... but we don't want Pegasus to create a MID and some mailclients (even on smartphones) used here don't do it too. Mercury/NLM, which I used until some weeks ago, did create MIDs for the problematic case (local to local), but Mercury/32 doesn't do that any more. That's my point and I hope David is willing to change that for next version of Mercury (obviously 4.74).

Cheers

     Olaf

Sent a mail from a local user to another local user via SMTP. Mercury/32 doesn't create a MsgID. Sending to external mailadress MsgID will be created.

What did I configure wrong?

Bye   Olaf

I checked a few messages from other local users and all have a Message-ID header. Are there any special circumstances involved when you receive messages without Message-ID?

/Rolf 

Hallo Rolf,

what are special circumstances?:-)

Having Mercury/32 4.73 with Netware Module for NDS (NW4) and a synonym file. Users mailboxes are on the server in their homedirectory. So local users are Netware-users. Had Mercury/NLM before without that behavior, so only Mercury changed. Our (central installed) Pegasus is configured not creating MsgIDs. Sending messages via SMTP.

Did some more tests:

• first mail was to a mailaddress (and user) with forward-file pointing to my original adress: no MsgID
  
• OK ... may be the problem; mail to my own address: no MsgID
• Hmm ... mail to our test-account (no synonym, simply accountname): no MsgID
• Mail to my support-account at a central mailserrver of university: MsgID there
  

 What I didn't test (just had the idea after dinner :-), if MsgID is still missing if I configure Pegasus back to using Netware features with queue-directory so it doesn't use SMTP (what's no option from home). I'm nearly shure there were MsgIDs before I configured use of SMTP.

bye   Olaf

The obvious difference between our installations is that your installation use the Netware Module for NDS and our installation doesn't. Unfortunately we have no Netware environment here so I'm not able to verify that this is the cause.

/Rolf 

> The obvious difference between our installations is that your
> installation use the Netware Module for NDS and our installation
> doesn't. Unfortunately we have no Netware environment here so I'm not
> able to verify that this is the cause.

IIRC, Mercury/NLM MercuryS does NOT add the Message-ID if it is missing from a received message.  Mercury/NLM is running mostly as a SMTP MTA host and does not do a lot of the MSA functions.

This does work for Mercury/32 but this was added around v4.7 IIRC but it may be a bit earlier or later; I'd have to search for the exact version..  

I'm running an old Netware bindery system and I can verify that Mercury does not add the Message-ID when received via MercuryS.  Mercury/NLM though does create a valid Message-id when mail is received as 101 files to the queue.

Hallo Thomas,

did the outstanding test disabling SMTP and using the spool-directory (aka 101 files) on the Netware server. Even in that mode Mercury/32 (have 4.73 servicing the spool-directories) does not create MsgIDs for local users.

Mercury/NLM did (we allways used  spool-directories) ... and because we never used SMTP there, I didn't know that MercuryS didn't create MsgIDs.

But now it seems it doesn't matter if Mercury/32 with netware modules gets mails via spool or SMTP ... MsgIDs for local users are not created. :-(

I think it should be done because Pegasus doesn't. Remembered this because found MID.DLL (tool for Pegasus creating MsgIDs by Gerard R Thomas) and renamed FFF/FDE files in my central installation. Used it formerly.

Rolf says that his installation without netware modules does create MsgIDs for local users. Is there perhaps an option in mercury.ini or is there a bug in the modules? Isn't it much more simple to have a programcode that simply says: If there is no MsgID in a message ***from*** a local user, create one.

bye   Olaf

P.S. Had another test: if I send a mail to a testlist (mailinglist) with only local users on, the MsgID is created.

> I think it should be done because Pegasus doesn't. Remembered this because found MID.DLL
> (tool for Pegasus creating MsgIDs by Gerard R Thomas) and renamed FFF/FDE files in my
> central installation. Used it formerly.

Pegasus Mail does create a message-id when sending via the internal mailer via Mercury, and Mercury does this when Pegasus Mail submits the mail via the local queue.  I created the following 'glue' headers type message 101 file

$$
thomas@novelltstephenson.com

From: thomas@tstephenson.com
To: thomas@novelltstephenson.com
Subject: Test Message
Date:    25 Nov 2011 08:47:59 +0100

This is a test message as a 101 file to a local user.

and got this as a local user.

Received: from SpoolDir by THOMAS (Mercury 1.48); 25 Nov 11 07:36:19 -0700
From: thomas@tstephenson.com
To: thomas@novelltstephenson.com
Subject: Test Message
Date:    25 Nov 2011 08:47:59 +0100
Return-path: <thomas@tstephenson.com>
Message-ID: <5340ECD2027@novelltstephenson.com>
X-PMFLAGS: 33570944 0 65537 Y01208.CNM                      

This is a test message as a 101 file to a local user.

Now if you are talking about Pegasus Mail sending directly to another user bypassing Mercury I'd need to test that since I've turned off all local delivery by Pegasus Mail for security reasons.

Note:  If you set pconfig.exe to force all mail through Mercury then even local mail delivery will go through Mercury and get the message-id added.  From pconfig:

 ─────────────── Mercury/Charon SMTP Interface ───────────────

     Spool interface?:   Y
          Output path:   \\THOMAS\SYS\SMTPMAIL
             Enabled?:   Y
           Preferred?:   Y
          Use always?:  [Y ]
   This server's name:   novell-tstephenson.com
        Our time zone:   0800
         Organization:

  If you want absolutely all mail to go via SMTP, then set
  this field to Y. Setting this field effectively disables
  Pegasus Mail's own delivery agent, and MHS support.

Hallo Thomas,

First of all: I found the reason why Pegasus didn't create MIDs (as long as we used MID.DLL) - sorry for that:  General System Flags = 2. Set

that to 0 for testing and Pegasus creates MID ... for every mail.

Doesn't matter if sent via spooldirectory (LAN-based) or SMTP. I will

switch the flag back, because we don't want other MIDs than

...@server.domain.

Now I did exactly your test with Mercury/32 4.73 with my Test-user. Placed that mailfile 101 in spooldirectory on Server1 (Netwareserver), which formerly was serviced by Mercury/NLM.

I do have 3 spooldirectories:

• C:\MERCURY\QUEUE (the local one on WinXP with Mercury/32) 
• \\Server1\SYS\QUEUES\MERCURY
• \\Server2\SYS\QUEUES\MERCURY

So ... for mails to local users (in my case on Netwareservers in NDS) it seems Mercury/32 doesn't create a MID even if directly placed in spooldirectory. There is no local delivery ... because I use internet mailaddress, not Netware address. I allways use the spooler.

help ... Olaf

> So ... for mails to local users (in my case on Netwareservers in NDS)
> it seems Mercury/32 doesn't create a MID even if directly placed in
> spooldirectory. There is no local delivery ... because I use internet
> mailaddress, not Netware address. I allways use the spooler.
>
> So simple question:  I remember too that Mercury/NLM had that behavior
> you described and showed, but Mercury/32 doesn't. What's wrong?

Mercury/32 is much more developed that Mercury/NLM, in fact development of Mercury/NLM stopped with v1.48 that came out about 11 years ago.  Mercury/32 is recommended for use with Netware nowadays.  

Personally, I use Mercury/32 as a gateway server to all my internal servers running on Netware, Linux and Windows.  All the internal servers send non-local mail to the Mercury/32 gateway server using MercuryC for final delivery.

I'm not at all sure about NDS when using Mercury/NLM but I do know the bindery version adds a message-id to all messages sent via the queue.  This does require that the direct local delivery of mail is turned off so all mail, even to local addresses, is passed through Mercury.  Have you looked at the headers of the mail sent to the local accounts?  Does is show Mercury headers?

[quote user="Thomas R. Stephenson"]Mercury/32 is much more developed that Mercury/NLM, in fact development of Mercury/NLM stopped with v1.48 that came out about 11 years ago.  Mercury/32 is recommended for use with Netware nowadays.[/quote]

I know ... and that's one reason I wanted to switch to Mercury/32.

[quote]All the internal servers send non-local mail to the Mercury/32 gateway server using MercuryC for final delivery.[/quote]

I use MercuryE ... should that be the difference? I don't think so, because mails to local users can only be seen in coremodul. And MercuryE isn't the problem ... mails sent that way get a MID.

[quote]I'm not at all sure about NDS when using Mercury/NLM but I do know the bindery version adds a message-id to all messages sent via the queue.  This does require that the direct local delivery of mail is turned off so all mail, even to local addresses, is passed through Mercury.  Have you looked at the headers of the mail sent to the local accounts?  Does is show Mercury headers?[/quote]

It does ... one line with received and no SMTP enabled:

Received: from spooler by wiso.tu-dortmund.de (Mercury/32 v4.73); 28 Nov 2011 15:26:03 +0100

To show the difference ... with SMTP:

Received: from spooler by wiso.tu-dortmund.de (Mercury/32 v4.73); 28 Nov 2011 16:07:29 +0100
Received: from biker.wiso.tu-dortmund.de (129.217.232.10) by wiso.tu-dortmund.de (Mercury/32 v4.73) with ESMTP
  ID MG01543E (Using SSL/TLS, 3DES, CBC mode, keysize 192 bits) ; 28 Nov 2011 16:07:26 +0100

Both only get an MID, if Pegasus generates one (general system flags set to 0 or 1). Additional Headers :

From: Initial.Name@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
To: test@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
Message-ID: <4ED399C7.17605.1B862D0@Initial.Name.wiso.tu-dortmund.de>

Tested all possible combinations of activated MID in Pegasus and Spool- or SMTP-mode. Restarted Pegasus every time on changing one testparamteter, especially when manipulating "general system flags". No MID when disabled in Pegasus. If you tell me, there must be a MID with Mercury/32 for local users, than there should be a difference in our configurations of mercury. But I don't see, where there should be changed an option. At the moment I don't realy understand all options in MERCURY.INI (there are much more than with Mercury/NLM). May be there is a flag to be set?

bye   Olaf

> Tested all possible combinations of activated MID in Pegasus and
> Spool- or SMTP-mode. Restarted Pegasus every time on changing one
> testparamteter, especially when manipulating "general system flags".

I have never changed any general system flags since Pegasus Mail started providing a valid message-id.  My general system flags line in the pmail.ini is zero.  Are you sure you have not modified other flag strings in the pmail.ini?  Again, Mercury adds the string to the messages submitted to the queue (101 files) if it is missing.  This should not be affected whether this is Mercury/NLM or Mercury/32.


> No MID when disabled in Pegasus. If you tell me, there must be a MID
> with Mercury/32 for local users, than there should be a difference in
> our configurations of mercury. But I don't see, where there should be
> changed an option. At the moment I don't realy understand all options
> in MERCURY.INI (there are much more than with Mercury/NLM). May be
> there is a flag to be set?

I'm not at all sure how you are doing this test.  Did you actually look at the 101 files being put into the queue?  As you can see in one of my previous messages when I put a 'glue' headers message into the queue for a local user without a message-id Mercury added it to the message when received by the local user.

The 101 file msg-id.101 is

------------------------------ msg-id-101 -------------------------
$$
thomas@novell-tstephenson.com
tstephen

From: thomas@tstephenson.com
To: thomas@novell-tstephenson.com
Cc: tstephen
Subject: Test Message
Date:    25 Nov 2011 08:47:59 +0100

This is a test message as a 101 file to a local user in 'glue' headers format.

----------------------------- Cut here --------------------------------

and the message as received by user Thomas and tstephen is as follows.

----------------------- Y09E5A.CNM -----------------------------------

Received: from SpoolDir by THOMAS (Mercury 1.48); 28 Nov 11 13:08:05 -0700
From: thomas@tstephenson.com
To: thomas@novell-tstephenson.com
Cc: tstephen
Subject: Test Message
Date:    25 Nov 2011 08:47:59 +0100
Return-path: <thomas@tstephenson.com>
Message-ID: <581985B7B64@novell-tstephenson.com>
X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 1 Y09E5A.CNM                          

This is a test message as a 101 file to a local user in 'glue' headers format.

--------------------------- cut here ----------------------------------

FWIW, Pegasus Mail and Mercury/32 create a much more truly unique message ID string.

[quote user="Thomas R. Stephenson"]Are you sure you have not modified other flag strings in the pmail.ini?[/quote]

Yes ... on top tested it  with a complete new user with complete new setup for Pegasus - same result.

[quote]Again, Mercury adds the string to the messages submitted to the queue (101 files) if it is missing.  This should not be affected whether this is Mercury/NLM or Mercury/32.[/quote]

That is what I had expected ...

[quote]I'm not at all sure how you are doing this test.[/quote]

The above, last tests have been with Pegasus writing his mails (in case not using SMTP connecting MercuryS) to the spooldirectory on first netwareserver.

[quote]Did you actually look at the 101 files being put into the queue?[/quote]

Yes ... talked about some messages above. Put a self created 101 to the same spooldirectory  on netwareserver that Pegasus uses. Did it again:

$$
test@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
admin.wiso

From: O.Erkens@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
To: test@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
CC: admin.wiso
Subject: Testmail 1
Date:    29 Nov 2011 08:47:59 +0100

This is a test message as a 101 file to a local user.

That's the result (no X-MFLAGS, because copied from CNM) in mail to user test and user admin:

Received: from spooler by wiso.tu-dortmund.de (Mercury/32 v4.73); 29 Nov 2011 10:13:22 +0100
X-Envelope-To: test@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
From: O.Erkens@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
To: test@wiso.tu-dortmund.de
CC: admin.wiso
Subject: Testmail 1
Date:    29 Nov 2011 08:47:59 +0100

This is a test message as a 101 file to a local user.

Did another test and put that file into the spooldirectory on the computer where Mercury/32 resides (C.\MERCURY\QUEUE) ... no change in behavior: no MID for local users.

To understand what you are doing there: <tsstephenson.com> is the same than <novell-tsstephenson.com>? So the account "thomas" is the same netwareuser?

Do you have a Mercury/32 servicing your netwareusers to run that test against it?

bye  Olaf

> Did another test and put that file into the spool directory on the

computer where Mercury/32 resides
> (C.\MERCURY\QUEUE) ... no change in

behavior: no MID for local users.

Got it.

> To understand what you are doing

there: <tsstephenson.com> is the same than

<novell-tsstephenson.com>?

Nope, different servers.

> So the account "thomas" is the same

netware user? 

I have the user "thomas" on all my servers.  It maintains the same password as well so I do only one login to authenticate against a Windows, Linux and Netware host.

> Do you have a Mercury/32 servicing your netware users to run that test against it?

 Aha, I finally understand what you are saying, you are talking about Mercury/32 not adding the message-id for local user, not Mercury/NLM.  I do have Mercury/32 also servicing the same Netware host and when I send to a local user via the Mercury/32 queue it does NOT add the message-id.  I have passed this to David Harris and the beta testers.

FWIW, I do have Mercury/32 (tstephenson.com) running as a front end-server for Netware (novell-tstephenson.com) but it forwards the mail via SMTP  using the mercfwd daemon

daemon:c:\mercury\mercfwd.dll;[192.168.1.3]: novell-tstephenson.com

*uff* meanwhile I was thinking I'm becoming to stupid to configure Mercury ... after over 20 years with Pegasus and Mecury. [:S]

OK ... so we  talked at cross-purposes (hope this is correct translation ... had to interview dict.leo.org). [:)]

Thanks a lot for your patience!

    Olaf

Reply from David.  BTW, when I send mail via the Mercury/32 queue with Pegasus Mail I do get a Message-ID.

> I finally understood what this guy is saying, Mercury/NLM adds the
> Message-id line for the local users, apparently Mercury/32 does not.

From the code, it looks as though the message-id would have been
added if the message had gone off-server: Mercury adds it when
creating the outgoing job.

I was actually under the impression that MercuryS would add
message-id's to incoming messages if they were missing, but it looks
as though it doesn't - I may yet change that for v4.74.

For pure local delivery, though (i.e, when a message originates in the
queue and ends up being delivered to another local user), no
message-id is added if none is present - in other words, I can confirm
the issue I think he's reporting.

I've always been in two minds about this one: it's actually the
originating mailer's duty to create message-ids (I got caned for this in
Pegasus Mail many years back and eventually changed it). I guess
there's no obvious harm in having Mercury add the header if it's
missing - the message is broken in any event, so fixing it presumably
can't make it any worse.

I'll have a think about this today and see what I can do. Thomas, could
you report back to the user for me?

Cheers!

-- David --

About Pegasus Mail not creating the proper message-id here's something more from David.

<Quote>

> This guy was using Pegasus Mail to send via the queue of
> Mercury/32 and the message-id was not being added.  I cannot
> duplicate with my Pegasus Mail setup though.

Looking at the code, there is definitely message-id generation going on
in Pegasus Mail, although for some reason it's controlled by the setting
of an internal system flag, and I can't see clearly what the default value
of that flag would be. There also doesn't seem to be anywhere in the
UI to change it, although it *appears* that it should always be turned
on by default.

Unfortunately, and unusually for me, there's no comment in the code
explaining why message-id generation is switched this way.

Suggest to him (not as a solution, just as a curiosity) that he look in his
PMAIL.INI file and find the entry called "General system flags": it can
have the values 0, 1, 2, or 3. If it's 3, tell him to set it to 1. If it's 2, tell
him to set it to 0. This will tell the program to generate message IDs.
On my system, it has the value "1", which turns on system message
logging. If it was a value other than 1 or 0, could you let me know?

Should definitely be working, though.

Cheers!

-- David --

<End Quote

I've set the flags to 1 and it's creating a message-id for mail to local users when mail is sent via MercuryS using the built-in mailer.  Here's the raw view as received.

 Received: from spooler by tstephenson.com (Mercury/32 v4.73); 29 Nov 2011 19:51:42 -0800
X-Envelope-To: <support@tstephenson.com>
X-CLAMWALL: Passed through antiviral test by ClamWall 1.4.0.96 on tstephenson.com (12)
X-SPAMWALL: Passed through antiSPAM test by Spamhalter 4.5.1.411 on tstephenson.com (105)
X-SPAMWALL: probability - 100.0%
X-SPAMWALL: SPAM detected!
X-SPAMWALL: Blocked SPAM!
Return-path: <support@tstephenson.com>
Received: from [192.168.1.5] (192.168.1.5) by tstephenson.com (Mercury/32
 v4.73) with ESMTP ID MG0005C3 (Using SSL/TLS, 3DES, CBC mode,
 keysize 192 bits) ; 29 Nov 2011 19:51:35 -0800
From: "Thomas Stephenson Sr" <support@tstephenson.com>
To: support@tstephenson.com
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:51:33 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Test Message Flags 1
Reply-to: support@tstephenson.com
Message-ID: <4ED5A845.14185.1B65C489@support.tstephenson.com>
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.62)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Content-description: Mail message body
X-Blocked: From and Rcpt identical
X-Rcpt-To: <support@tstephenson.com>
X-Filtered: Done
X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 1 1 YQVGBP9N.CNM                       

Sent via Mercury/32 MercuryS with General Message Flags set to 1

--
Thomas Stephenson         
2030 Lockwood Drive, San Jos=C3=A9 CA 95132
Phone: (408) 263-2836
support@tstephenson.com
Member of Pegasus Mail Support Team

Thought for the day:
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand
by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public.
- Theodore Roosevelt

Dear Thomas and David,

[quote user="Thomas R. Stephenson"] BTW, when I send mail via the Mercury/32 queue with Pegasus Mail I do get a Message-ID.[/quote]

Absolutely clear ... thats not the point. We don't want Pegasus to create a MID, because due to the manner Pegasus creates it there may be information about persons in mails that we don't want to be sent to the internet. And if Pegasus creates a MID, Mercury/32 will not overwrite it if mail is sent to external receipients.

[quote user="David Harris"]From the code, it looks as though the message-id would have been added if the message had gone off-server: Mercury adds it when creating the outgoing job.[/quote]

That's correct and does as wanted!

[quote]I've always been in two minds about this one: it's actually the originating mailer's duty to create message-ids (I got caned for this in Pegasus Mail many years back and eventually changed it).[/quote]

You did ... because at that time Mercury/NLM created a MID which didn't fullfill the requirements for a international accepted MID (was something like <xxxxxxxxx@domain.de>) and more and more the Anti-SPAM-engines gave SPAM-points on that MID.

[quote]I guess there's no obvious harm in having Mercury add the header if it's missing - the message is broken in any event, so fixing it presumably can't make it any worse[/quote]

That's what I thought. If FROM / Originator and recipient are local and no MID is in mail, Mercury/32 (like Mercury/NLM does) should create an MID. There are two problems for the future, that I can't fix:

• Times have passed that I'm able to tell users, which mailclient to use; most (with desktops) use Pegasus, but not all (most times those with notebooks). And not all mailclients create MIDs.
• Smartphones are coming up more and more capable connecting IMAP and sending mails via SMTP even with SSL. Most of them don't create MIDs.

Very funny is, sending the same mail to external (TO) and internal (CC). The external gets the mail with MID, the internal doesn't. And now we create reference-headers based on MID and use mailclients capable using them ... you see the problem?

Thanks in advance

   Olaf