Community Discussions and Support
IERenderer 2.6.3.5 - Replies of HTML formatted emails

All fair statements below, I'd say.  

Right, the only price which suits anyone's convenience for an email client these days is "free".  Although a PMail user since 1990, I do recall paying US$50 for Eudora back some years ago, as an experiment.  That seemed quite within the frame at the time, but that was then and this is now.   

I know that Pegasus & Mercury have been a mission and a calling for David H., long since.  And I also remember at least some of the struggles over the years.  Some time ago -- funny that, how so much nowadays seems "some time ago" to me -- apparently there was some backstage shuffling around to fund an update to TER, and on a different occasion to assist David in his rebuild from what I took to be an abrupt hardware failure of his production server.  

David has tried, he really has.  As have some number of you who keep this forum going.  Yet the headwinds against what David is trying to continue doing blow incessantly and relentlessly, punctuated from time to time by eruptions of discontented entitlement over this, that, and the other.  (Not from you, Joerg, please understand, but from your users, who, as you say, "are not interested in any explanations".)  

I also recall -- from better times -- Thomas Stephenson's (R.I.P.) excursion to visit David in Dunedin, and the lovely photos he posted on his website.  

As for Michael's "we absolutely must know about them":  oh, I have continuing annoyances with TER in text mode, but I just live with them, since I do understand the situation when it comes to funding updates, and I infer that you're referring to "fancy", not text.   

I hope that development can continue to go on, and on, and that we won't be looking at turning down the lights and putting the cat out anytime soon.  Yet I also know that our numbers do dwindle, and that the appeal of some 10-15 years ago for committed annual subscribers did not meet the hoped-for yield.  

Perhaps we will yet endure.  



<font size="2">All fair statements below, I'd say.   Right, the only price which suits anyone's convenience for an email client these days is "free".  Although a PMail user since 1990, I do recall paying US$50 for Eudora back some years ago, as an experiment.  That seemed quite within the frame at the time, but that was then and this is now.    I know that Pegasus & Mercury have been a mission and a calling for David H., long since.  And I also remember at least some of the struggles over the years.  Some time ago -- funny that, how so much nowadays seems "some time ago" to me -- apparently there was some backstage shuffling around to fund an update to TER, and on a different occasion to assist David in his rebuild from what I took to be an abrupt hardware failure of his production server.   David has tried, he really has.  As have some number of you who keep this forum going.  Yet the headwinds against what David is trying to continue doing blow incessantly and relentlessly, punctuated from time to time by eruptions of discontented entitlement over this, that, and the other.  (Not from you, Joerg, please understand, but from your users, who, as you say, "are not interested in any explanations".)   I also recall -- from better times -- Thomas Stephenson's (R.I.P.) excursion to visit David in Dunedin, and the lovely photos he posted on his website.   As for Michael's "we absolutely must know about them":  oh, I have continuing annoyances with TER in text mode, but I just live with them, since I do understand the situation when it comes to funding updates, and I infer that you're referring to "fancy", not text.    I hope that development can continue to go on, and on, and that we won't be looking at turning down the lights and putting the cat out anytime soon.  Yet I also know that our numbers do dwindle, and that the appeal of some 10-15 years ago for committed annual subscribers did not meet the hoped-for yield.   Perhaps we will yet endure.   </font>

When replying HTML formatted emails, containing different font weights, different paragraphs, enumerations (bullet points) and colored texts - all of these formats will be taken over except the text colors of the original mail. All colored text will be changed to black. Is it possible to keep the colored text as well?

<p>When replying HTML formatted emails, containing different font weights, different paragraphs, enumerations (bullet points) and colored texts - all of these formats will be taken over except the text colors of the original mail. All colored text will be changed to black. Is it possible to keep the colored text as well? </p>

Joerg, when replying to those messages do you have "For replies to HTML, preserve original's formatting" checked? I have mine always unchecked because most messages unfit my needs. As you may know, this setting appears on the Reply options pane.

Joerg, when replying to those messages do you have <i>"For replies to HTML, preserve original's formatting"</i> checked? I have mine always unchecked because most messages unfit my needs. As you may know, this setting appears on the <i>Reply options</i> pane.

Yes, I got it activated. And all other html formatted things like font weight, lists, images are available within the quoted reply message. Only the color code is missing and the entire text is in black.

Yes, I got it activated. And all other html formatted things like font weight, lists, images are available within the quoted reply message. Only the color code is missing and the entire text is in black.

Hmm, I remember something like this happening here long ago. I'm not sure if I had it sorted or simply ignored it. Maybe it's related to message's CSS code. Have you tried some of IERenderer's Risky options?

Hmm, I remember something like this happening here long ago. I'm not sure if I had it sorted or simply ignored it. Maybe it's related to message's CSS code. Have you tried some of IERenderer's Risky options?

[quote user="Joerg"]All colored text will be changed to black. Is it possible to keep the colored text as well?[/quote]

Joerg, never say never and never say all: This isn't true, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Since quoted text goes through several hoops before getting displayed in the editor and another final one before being delivered there's absolutely no way to predict of what gets out of the machine when done. IER or BearHtml are sending HTML through Tidy for fixing errors and sometimes applying further adjustments to keep Pegasus Mail from crashing or weird display issues before HTS converts the HTML to RTF displayed by TER which gets converted back to HTML by HTS before delivery. TER/HTS are very outdated as is BearHtmls rendering machine, IER is as well to some extent since IE doesn't fully support HTML5 and maybe most likely not the latest CSS novelties, so now it's up to you to make a good guess on who's the culprit in this lottery of never ending amusements for everyone who likes to complain about the nitty gritty ...

<p>[quote user="Joerg"]All colored text will be changed to black. Is it possible to keep the colored text as well?[/quote]</p><p>Joerg, never say never and never say all: This isn't true, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Since quoted text goes through several hoops before getting displayed in the editor and another final one before being delivered there's absolutely no way to predict of what gets out of the machine when done. IER or BearHtml are sending HTML through Tidy for fixing errors and sometimes applying further adjustments to keep Pegasus Mail from crashing or weird display issues before HTS converts the HTML to RTF displayed by TER which gets converted back to HTML by HTS before delivery. TER/HTS are very outdated as is BearHtmls rendering machine, IER is as well to some extent since IE doesn't fully support HTML5 and maybe most likely not the latest CSS novelties, so now it's up to you to make a good guess on who's the culprit in this lottery of never ending amusements for everyone who likes to complain about the nitty gritty ... </p>

			Michael

--
PGP Key ID (RSA 2048): 0xC45D831B
IERenderer's Home: https://www.pmpgp.de/renderer/History.htm
S/MIME Fingerprint: 94C6B471 0C623088 A5B27701 742B8666 3B7E657C

[quote user="idw"]

Joerg, never say never and never say all: This isn't true, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.[/quote]

Moin Michael,

it seems to me, you are always a little bit sensitive, when someone is complaining something in connection with IER.  [:)][:)][:)]  But don't feel attacked. We are highly apprecciating your effort to keep IER running. [Y][Y]

But please try and see it from my point of view with 20 users here. They always come to me and ask me, why Pmail is not able to do this or to do that while Thunderbird is always able to do so. But actually they are not interested in any explanations, they have only to do their work and need practical solutions. And the color codes may be a "nitty gritty" for you but for other guys it's a important tool.

For the current case I tried  4 - 5 other html mails in my stock in Pmail and see that the color code is always getting lost when replying, but all the same mail replies will be shown correctly in Thunderbird. I agree, 4-5 mails are not "all", but it is a significant value that users could be worry about it. What should I say to my users? Finally I say: "Use Thunderbird instead, if you really need these color codes"...           And again, one user lost.

I would realy like to keep Pmail running also in future here with us since it has accompanied us over many years. But, as you also said, the internet is changing fast and we always need practical solutions for all of our daily working tasks. It would be a pity if finally only we, the Computer Nerds, are using Pmail, since more and more "noral users" are switching to other mail clients, isn't it?

But enough philosophized for Monday morning. I originally though there is a hidden option which I forgot to acticate for using color codes. This thread was never intended as a complaint. Nice week to everybody.

[quote user="idw"]<p>Joerg, never say never and never say all: This isn't true, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.[/quote]</p><p>Moin Michael,</p><p> it seems to me, you are always a little bit sensitive, when someone is complaining something in connection with IER.  [:)][:)][:)]  But don't feel attacked. We are highly apprecciating your effort to keep IER running. [Y][Y]</p><p>But please try and see it from my point of view with 20 users here. They always come to me and ask me, why Pmail is not able to do this or to do that while Thunderbird is always able to do so. But actually they are not interested in any explanations, they have only to do their work and need practical solutions. And the color codes may be a "nitty gritty" for you but for other guys it's a important tool. </p><p>For the current case I tried  4 - 5 other html mails in my stock in Pmail and see that the color code is always getting lost when replying, but all the same mail replies will be shown correctly in Thunderbird. I agree, 4-5 mails are not "all", but it is a significant value that users could be worry about it. What should I say to my users? Finally I say: "Use Thunderbird instead, if you really need these color codes"...           And again, one user lost. </p><p>I would realy like to keep Pmail running also in future here with us since it has accompanied us over many years. But, as you also said, the internet is changing fast and we always need practical solutions for all of our daily working tasks. It would be a pity if finally only we, the Computer Nerds, are using Pmail, since more and more "noral users" are switching to other mail clients, isn't it?</p><p>But enough philosophized for Monday morning. I originally though there is a hidden option which I forgot to acticate for using color codes. This thread was never intended as a complaint. Nice week to everybody. </p>

[quote user="Joerg"]I originally though there is a hidden option which I forgot to acticate for using color codes.[/quote]

Joerg, the only thing I can say: IER doesn't deal with styles when it comes to processing messages for replying, forwarding or printing. In these cases they are only sent through Tidy for preventing them to crash Pegasus Mail or causing fatal display issues (like missing text or the like). You've certainly seen all kinds of ugly HTML display in the editor before, this is what the TER/HTS-combo does to them. Tidy might cause some side effects, but the main issue in this case is most probably the heavily outdated TER/HTS-combo.

There's currently a discussion going on with us beta testers about how to give David Harris the chance to financially afford an update to its most recent version, though, maybe we can get at least this issue solved for another interim release (i.e. pre v5) of Pegasus Mail.

And BTW: Being sensitive is in the nature of things: Software developers almost exclusively get to hear about what doesn't work. But everybody reporting such issues (and I'd like to emphasize here that we absolutely must know about them!) in the case of Pegasus Mail should always keep in mind that there are effectively only three people doing almost all of the work: David Harris, Martin Ireland and me. Thunderbird, as opposed to that, has a much larger staff of people from all over the world doing this work, so any comparison to other email clients like this one is pretty unfair ...

So please forgive me when I'm repeatedly acting contradictory in this place here ...

<p>[quote user="Joerg"]I originally though there is a hidden option which I forgot to acticate for using color codes.[/quote]</p><p>Joerg, the only thing I can say: IER doesn't deal with styles when it comes to processing messages for replying, forwarding or printing. In these cases they are only sent through Tidy for preventing them to crash Pegasus Mail or causing fatal display issues (like missing text or the like). You've certainly seen all kinds of ugly HTML display in the editor before, this is what the TER/HTS-combo does to them. Tidy might cause some side effects, but the main issue in this case is most probably the heavily outdated TER/HTS-combo.</p><p>There's currently a discussion going on with us beta testers about how to give David Harris the chance to financially afford an update to its most recent version, though, maybe we can get at least this issue solved for another interim release (i.e. pre v5) of Pegasus Mail.</p><p>And BTW: Being sensitive is in the nature of things: Software developers almost exclusively get to hear about what doesn't work. But everybody reporting such issues (and I'd like to emphasize here that we <i>absolutely must</i> know about them!) in the case of Pegasus Mail should always keep in mind that there are effectively only three people doing almost all of the work: David Harris, Martin Ireland and me. Thunderbird, as opposed to that, has a much larger staff of people from all over the world doing this work, so any comparison to other email clients like this one is pretty unfair ...</p><p>So please forgive me when I'm repeatedly acting contradictory in this place here ... </p>

			Michael

--
PGP Key ID (RSA 2048): 0xC45D831B
IERenderer's Home: https://www.pmpgp.de/renderer/History.htm
S/MIME Fingerprint: 94C6B471 0C623088 A5B27701 742B8666 3B7E657C

[quote user="idw"]There's currently a discussion going on with us beta testers about how to give David Harris the chance to financially afford an update to its most recent version, though, maybe we can get at least this issue solved for another interim release (i.e. pre v5) of Pegasus Mail.[/quote]

I know it's difficult, especially because nowadays nobody (in the private sector) wants to spend money for an email app. Maybe he could firstly enforce the finishing of the new Mercury release to generate money. We would also be willing to spend more money for a licence then in past. Especially if the new Mercury would fully support all modern IMAP features, it would be such a big advantage for small enterprises than purchasing and maintaining a MS Exchange server.

<p>[quote user="idw"]There's currently a discussion going on with us beta testers about how to give David Harris the chance to financially afford an update to its most recent version, though, maybe we can get at least this issue solved for another interim release (i.e. pre v5) of Pegasus Mail.[/quote]</p><p>I know it's difficult, especially because nowadays nobody (in the private sector) wants to spend money for an email app. Maybe he could firstly enforce the finishing of the new Mercury release to generate money. We would also be willing to spend more money for a licence then in past. Especially if the new Mercury would fully support all modern IMAP features, it would be such a big advantage for small enterprises than purchasing and maintaining a MS Exchange server. </p>
live preview
enter atleast 10 characters
WARNING: You mentioned %MENTIONS%, but they cannot see this message and will not be notified
Saving...
Saved
With selected deselect posts show selected posts
All posts under this topic will be deleted ?
Pending draft ... Click to resume editing
Discard draft