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Unreadable Mail Unknown "From" and "None" Subject

What we have as a screenshot is the new mail folder, so there's no index file involved like with other folders which Pegasus Mail would use for displaying headers and edited headers after being moved to a regular mail folder, so the details ribbon info is always read directly from the CNM file as the (virtual) "folder" listing does as well since there's no index file to get this information from. It this is a typical pattern for all these messages it looks like a race condition where an external access by AV scanners might very well come into play (which might also explain the randomness).


What we have as a screenshot is the new mail folder, so there's no index file involved like with other folders which Pegasus Mail would use for displaying headers and edited headers after being moved to a regular mail folder, so the details ribbon info is always read directly from the CNM file as the (virtual) "folder" listing does as well since there's no index file to get this information from. It this is a typical pattern for all these messages it looks like a race condition where an external access by AV scanners might very well come into play (which might also explain the randomness).
			Michael
--
IERenderer's Homepage
PGP Key ID (RSA 2048): 0xC45D831B
S/MIME Fingerprint: 94C6B471 0C623088 A5B27701 742B8666 3B7E657C

We know that zero byte .cnm files can result in Sender=Unknown and Subject=none. That screenshot shows those messages have a zero size yet there is content shown in the preview pane. I am baffled by that.


A zero byte CNM file without headers would show up like this on the details ribbon:


6668e067d0b54


[quote="pid:56698, uid:28772"]We know that zero byte .cnm files can result in Sender=Unknown and Subject=none. That screenshot shows those messages have a zero size yet there is content shown in the preview pane. I am baffled by that.[/quote] A zero byte CNM file without headers would show up like this on the details ribbon: ![6668e067d0b54](serve/attachment&path=6668e067d0b54)
			Michael
--
IERenderer's Homepage
PGP Key ID (RSA 2048): 0xC45D831B
S/MIME Fingerprint: 94C6B471 0C623088 A5B27701 742B8666 3B7E657C
edited Jun 12 at 12:41 am

Maybe it was read upon receipt and stored in a database with that From data associated with whatever index the database is using for that message (and doesn't change) , but the preview reads it whenever the message is selected so it picks up the edit.


I also note that you can change the subject of a received message, but if you reply to it it retains the original subject, not the edited version. However, once you file it in a folder, that logic reverses.. the preview shows the original subject, but the message listing now shows the edited subject.


Steeley, did you restart Pegasus Mail or refresh the new mail folder (close/reopen) in between your edits? Anomalies in the new mail folder have been known to be resolved by a refresh. My expectation is that your edits would have been detected by a refresh which is why I ask. The message list displays what was read when the entry was created but selecting a message displays what it is at that moment.


[quote="pid:56699, uid:3346"]Maybe it was read upon receipt and stored in a database with that From data associated with whatever index the database is using for that message (and doesn't change) , but the preview reads it whenever the message is selected so it picks up the edit. I also note that you can change the subject of a received message, but if you reply to it it retains the original subject, not the edited version. However, once you file it in a folder, that logic reverses.. the preview shows the original subject, but the message listing now shows the edited subject.[/quote] Steeley, did you restart Pegasus Mail or refresh the new mail folder (close/reopen) in between your edits? Anomalies in the new mail folder have been known to be resolved by a refresh. My expectation is that your edits would have been detected by a refresh which is why I ask. The message list displays what was read when the entry was created but selecting a message displays what it is at that moment.

Steeley, did you restart Pegasus Mail or refresh the new mail folder (close/reopen) in between your edits?


I just edited the CNM file and then selected it, without doing anything else with Pegasus.


As you suspected, if I "refresh" the listing (or, since I had deleted the message, I just pulled it back into "New Mail" which also forced a reread) and then yes, both entries showed the same.. "Edited sender". So, now I know for sure where the message list gets it's info.. Thanks!


And so now, if Donald doesn't see that same phenomenon (closing and reopening Pegasus , or deleting and restoring from the deleted messages folder) and recovering the information, I'm going to lose any residual feeling like I might have helped this at all. smile


[quote="pid:56704, uid:28772"]Steeley, did you restart Pegasus Mail or refresh the new mail folder (close/reopen) in between your edits?[/quote] I just edited the CNM file and then selected it, without doing anything else with Pegasus. As you suspected, if I "refresh" the listing (or, since I had deleted the message, I just pulled it back into "New Mail" which also forced a reread) and then yes, both entries showed the same.. "_Edited sender_". So, now I know for sure where the message list gets it's info.. Thanks! And so now, if Donald doesn't see that same phenomenon (closing and reopening Pegasus , or deleting and restoring from the deleted messages folder) and recovering the information, I'm going to lose any residual feeling like I might have helped this at all. ;(
edited Jun 12 at 3:38 am

Okay... so if I move all the from 'unknown' messages to the Inbox, this solves the display problem after it is automatically moved to the Main Folder ??


Is this a clue?


I will see if I can exclude Pegasus from the Avast AV scan, but not sure I can, since I think it is the Shields that is the probable problem...


Don.


Okay... so if I **move** all the from 'unknown' messages to the Inbox, this **solves** the display problem after it is automatically moved to the Main Folder ?? Is this a clue? I will see if I can exclude Pegasus from the Avast AV scan, but not sure I can, since I think it is the Shields that is the probable problem... Don.

PS: Of course, not sure of new incoming mail...


Don


PS: Of course, not sure of new incoming mail... Don

I will see if I can exclude Pegasus from the Avast AV scan, but not sure I can, since I think it is the Shields that is the probable problem...


The ideal is to find a balance. You want to exclude P:\Mail from active scanning but included it in scheduled scans. The decision to exclude from active scanning is tempered by the conscientiousness of the Pegasus Mail users when it comes to security and good email practices. Keep in mind that attachments, when opened, are written to the system temporary directory by default so they get scanned at that time provided active scanning is enabled in that directory.


You might also consider turning off the component of Avast that scans email as it is being retrieved.


[quote="pid:56709, uid:28210"]I will see if I can exclude Pegasus from the Avast AV scan, but not sure I can, since I think it is the Shields that is the probable problem...[/quote] The ideal is to find a balance. You want to exclude P:\Mail from active scanning but included it in scheduled scans. The decision to exclude from active scanning is tempered by the conscientiousness of the Pegasus Mail users when it comes to security and good email practices. Keep in mind that attachments, when opened, are written to the system temporary directory by default so they get scanned at that time provided active scanning is enabled in that directory. You might also consider turning off the component of Avast that scans email as it is being retrieved.

Okay... so if I move all the from 'unknown' messages to the Inbox, this solves the display problem after it is automatically moved to the Main Folder ??


Is this a clue?


The screenshot that was posted showed the New mail folder which I assume is what you are calling the "Inbox". I then assume that read messages are automatically being moved to the Main folder. Did the display problem exist when they were in the Main folder?


FWIW, it is not surprising that moving them back to the New mail folder resolved the display problem if the display problem was the result of an issued that affected the polling of their content as they were being recorded into the message list. A good first reaction to any From and Subject anomalies in the New mail folder is to rescan it.


[quote="pid:56709, uid:28210"]Okay... so if I move all the from 'unknown' messages to the Inbox, this solves the display problem after it is automatically moved to the Main Folder ?? Is this a clue?[/quote] The screenshot that was posted showed the New mail folder which I assume is what you are calling the "Inbox". I then assume that read messages are automatically being moved to the Main folder. Did the display problem exist when they were in the Main folder? FWIW, it is not surprising that moving them back to the New mail folder resolved the display problem if the display problem was the result of an issued that affected the polling of their content as they were being recorded into the message list. A good first reaction to any From and Subject anomalies in the New mail folder is to rescan it.

Okay... so if I move all the from 'unknown' messages to the Inbox, this solves the display problem after it is automatically moved to the Main Folder ??


The idea is to force Pegasus to "rescan" the messages (I see Brian just posted pretty much the same thing I was thinking..).
Since you have a "deleted messages" folder.. just "delete" the messages and then move/restore them back in the New Mail folder.. Do they read correctly now?
If so, then yea, Pegasus was not able to open the messages for gathering the data as they were coming in, for some reason - an Antivirus temporary "quarantine" while the message is scanned upon receipt is the current suspect.


[quote="pid:56709, uid:28210"]Okay... so if I move all the from 'unknown' messages to the Inbox, this solves the display problem after it is automatically moved to the Main Folder ??[/quote] The idea is to force Pegasus to "rescan" the messages (I see Brian just posted pretty much the same thing I was thinking..). Since you have a "deleted messages" folder.. just "delete" the messages and then move/restore them back in the_ New Mail_ folder.. Do they read correctly now? If so, then yea, Pegasus was not able to open the messages for gathering the data as they were coming in, for some reason - an Antivirus temporary "quarantine" while the message is scanned upon receipt is the current suspect.
edited Jun 12 at 2:58 pm

Okay, thanks - I have disabled AV scanning for P:\Mail*
Let's see how this goes over the next few days... I will keep you updated.


Thanks again smile


Okay, thanks - I have disabled AV scanning for P:\Mail\* Let's see how this goes over the next few days... I will keep you updated. Thanks again :)

Well that seems to have fixed the problem - no "unknown's" received over the last 28 hours :-)


Thanks everyone


Well that seems to have fixed the problem - no "unknown's" received over the last 28 hours :-) Thanks everyone

Cool - I've been a Pegasus user for 30 years, and never had to think much about how it does what it does, which is the hallmark of good design and construction. So, now I (and probably others) know a bit more.
Not surprised the problem was AV.. I know of one vendor who apparently thinks the key to security is preventing anything else (programs, processes, even the operating system), from accessing memory or drives, at all!


(And it looks like msetzerii was on the scent early.. smile )


Cool - I've been a Pegasus _user_ for 30 years, and never had to think much about how it does what it does, which is the hallmark of good design and construction. So, now I (and probably others) know a bit more. Not surprised the problem was AV.. I know of one vendor who apparently thinks the key to security is preventing anything else (programs, processes, even the operating system), from accessing memory or drives, at all! (And it looks like msetzerii was on the scent early.. (wasntme) )

Okay, sadly not right yet... I have been monitoring and there is still a problem.


Something different came up today, but maybe it is related, which will help solve the problem.


So I get the user unkown error as above, and gobbledee gook content, which will show correctly if I select properties on that message and check "is a valid mime message" - then move the message to a park folder and from there back to the new mail folder - then all display is correct.


Today found this too.... see attached:


66829d905ddb5


How DO we fix this? Should I try reinstalling the program?


Thanks,
Don


Okay, sadly not right yet... I have been monitoring and there is still a problem. Something different came up today, but maybe it is related, which will help solve the problem. So I get the user unkown error as above, and gobbledee gook content, which will show correctly if I select properties on that message and check "is a valid mime message" - then move the message to a park folder and from there back to the new mail folder - then all display is correct. Today found this too.... see attached: ![66829d905ddb5](serve/attachment&path=66829d905ddb5) How DO we fix this? Should I try reinstalling the program? Thanks, Don

How DO we fix this? Should I try reinstalling the program?


What did you find in the attachments page?


A reinstallation rarely fixes a problem. The 4.81 public beta is solid so is the version that I recommend on Win10 & Win11. I don't know about XP though.


[quote="pid:56791, uid:28210"]How DO we fix this? Should I try reinstalling the program?[/quote] What did you find in the attachments page? A reinstallation rarely fixes a problem. The 4.81 public beta is solid so is the version that I recommend on Win10 & Win11. I don't know about XP though.

and from there back to the new mail folder - then all display is correct.


If forcing PM to "reload" the message corrects the issue (I don't think you need to alter properties or do anything else, that ALSO forces PM to reload the message in whole or part methinks), then something is interfering with PM reading it correctly the first time.


Brian is correct. this isn't a PM issue..


What I would do first is open task manager, and see what else is running, for a suspect list..


If just disabling AV completely before retrieving messages doesn't "correct the problem", then, I'd turn off "auto-retrieve" and use the File/Selected Mail Download option to retrieve messages, but do NOT delete them from the server until after they have been retrieved and displayed properly, or you have isolated the problem. The idea is to retain some messages on the server that you know fall victim, for troubleshooting.


Once you have a victim message or two on the server, you can start using Task Manager to kill various running programs prior to downloading them again, and see which one(s) appear to be the culprit. Note - it could easily be two different programs not playing nice with each other, or it's even possible that using the Selected Mail Download option avoids the problem completely if it changes the timing of the retrieve/load/scan activity. Again, if forcing PM to "rescan" the messages works, you've got a timing "race condition" between PM and something else accessing the message file at the same time during initial retrieval and load,.


[Conceptually, if three people can't enter through the door simultaneously, it may not be any one of them is "too fat" (the "culprit" ), just someone/any one of them has to enter before (or after) the others.. ]


Once the suspect(s) is/are isolated and the reason identified, now you can start figuring out what to do about it.


And it could be a hardware issue.. only one or two of all the computers are experiencing it, and it isolates to a particular manufacturer/model what's different there? Amount of memory, processor cores, hard drive access speeds, as I'm oft fond of noting: "It could be anything, and probably is..".


BUT - I'm still betting it's the AV.. could it be you've turned off scanning PM while PM is retrieving messages, but AV is still triggered to scanning files when they are being "saved to disk" regardless of location?? As I noted first above, once you have some suspects saved on the server, suspend/disable AV completely and then retrieve them from the server and see if they get loaded properly.


If the affected messages are those with attachment payloads only, then, are the attachments being saved to a different path than x:\PMail..\? smile


[quote="pid:56791, uid:28210"]and from there back to the new mail folder - then all display is correct.[/quote] If forcing PM to "reload" the message corrects the issue (I don't think you need to alter properties or do anything else, that ALSO forces PM to reload the message in whole or part methinks), then something is interfering with PM reading it correctly the first time. Brian is correct. this isn't a PM issue.. What I would do first is open task manager, and see what else is running, for a suspect list.. If just _disabling AV completely_ before retrieving messages doesn't "correct the problem", then, I'd turn off "auto-retrieve" and use the File/Selected Mail Download option to retrieve messages, but do NOT delete them from the server until after they have been retrieved and displayed properly, or you have isolated the problem. The idea is to retain some messages on the server that you know fall victim, for troubleshooting. Once you have a victim message or two on the server, you can start using Task Manager to kill various running programs prior to downloading them again, and see which one(s) appear to be the culprit. Note - it could easily be two different programs not playing nice with each other, or it's even possible that using the Selected Mail Download option avoids the problem completely if it changes the timing of the retrieve/load/scan activity. Again, if forcing PM to "rescan" the messages works, you've got a timing "race condition" between PM and something else accessing the message file at the same time during initial retrieval and load,. [Conceptually, if three people can't enter through the door simultaneously, it may not be any one of them is "too fat" (the "culprit" ), just someone/any one of them has to enter before (or after) the others.. ] Once the suspect(s) is/are isolated and the reason identified, now you can start figuring out what to do about it. _And it could be a hardware issue.. only one or two of all the computers are experiencing it, and it isolates to a particular manufacturer/model what's different there? Amount of memory, processor cores, hard drive access speeds, as I'm oft fond of noting: "It could be anything, and probably is.."._ BUT - I'm still betting it's the AV.. could it be you've turned off scanning PM while PM is retrieving messages, but AV is still triggered to scanning files when they are being "saved to disk" regardless of location?? As I noted first above, once you have some suspects saved on the server, suspend/disable AV completely and then retrieve them from the server and see if they get loaded properly. If the affected messages are those with attachment payloads only, then, are the attachments being saved to a different path than x:\PMail\..\? ;)
edited Jul 1 at 4:17 pm
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