Thanks Lythende...

The interesting thing is, on the system I use 99.9% of the time, that button "Expression.." is not shown.  But, on another machine that has Peg on, from years ago, it it there.  Both machines seems to have the same version of Peg installed, but in different places, one's in a folder from C:\ (buggy?) the other from C:\ProgramFiles\ (has the missing button)    I seem to remember, that the C:\ version I use mostly, was bulk copied from an earlier machine, not "installed" as such.

I'm going to backup all the existing mail data, and re-install Peg on the main PC and try again.

Let you know.

Thanks again.

Dave.

Hi All..

Peg V4.41, on Win2k.

Long time pmail user, since the mid 90's.  However I've only ever used it for the usual mail stuff, from the Win3x days to now.

I'm guessing this might have been asked before, but I find the sites search clunky in the extreme, and unable to search relaibly on phrases, so here I am.

I have a list of members email addresses, and can trigger the rule to forward to them just fine.  But if anything "bounces", or they reply to me without changing the subject, or I'm on the list (I get the list updated regularly from our club sec') I get the inevitable forwarding loop....  (It'd be good for me, to have it come back to me, as I then know it got out OK, but I don't want that in turn sent out again, and again, and again etc...)

How best to break this loop, 100% reliably?  Other than remove my own mail address from the list, but that is only one cause of it.

I can't find a way for pmail to change the "From" address, or the "subject" text.  The available rule triggers seem lacking in this respect.   So far, I've spent two days trying to figure this out, and all I've done, is fill up my ISP's mailbox from time to time by accident.

The problem seems to be that Peg' is too willing to forward things, while trying to not show it's done so, making (afiks) preventing a loop, less than easy.

Is there any way I can get the filter rules to trigger on headers that are in the message, but not listed as options in the rules editor?  Such as, Forwarded-By: for example?   There is an option for sensing the "Return Path" header, but it seems not to work.

I sometimes write software in C or Pascal, so I'm not unfamilar with programming, looping, and rules etc, but I've probably been spoilt as a result, and expect too much of other things.

I'm doing it this way, as the various mail reflector sites I've tried strip attachments, for obvious reasons.  However, we need such attachments to stay.

The list is setup with a unique "To:" field, and with a return address.  But, I cannot get Peg to detect these to prevent a loop, if such a generated message comes back to me.

Any clues comments. What have I missed?

Regards.

Dave.

More information, after a strong coffee and some more finger work...

If a message is manually sent to a mailing list.  Peg' dutifully fills in the To: and Reply To: header fields with what you enter into the Distribution list Settings dialog, for those parameters.   Both those header fields can be tested by the Filter rules.  No problem.

However.....

If a received message is Automaticaly forwarded by a Filter/rule trigger, or for that matter manually forwarded to a Dist' list, then, Peg' does not alter the contents of the original From: or To: fields, but it creates and uses "Forwarded To: and "Forwarded By: header fields, that are filled out according to the Distribution list Settings dialog.  The same happens if you forward to a single address, ie, not one from a list.  So, (assuming that is correct standards wise, I don't know email in that sort of depth) there is some comonality.

The problem with all that is, within the Filter rules, I can find no way to test these extra header fields to detect if a message has already passed through here, so I can prevent duplicate and loop problems.

It does not seem posible either, to filter on the contents of the "Return path:" field, that and forwarded messages do not seem to have a "Reply To:" (or "Sender:") header field.  (A single message "Sent" to a list, also does not have a "Sender:" field.)  However, if they were present, from within the wizard at least it would appear posible to use them. 

However, if you start to create a filter rule, from within a received message's "Filter Wizard" dialog, you potentialy get a whole lot more options to mess with, than if you start at the main Peg' window Filter button.  That, and so created filter/rule, if you then go to view/edit it after it's been created, you only get the smaller collection of options to fiddle with.   Even if I try to use the "other - please specify" entry in the Wizard, it puts the whole lot as a string to search for, in any of the comon headers. In fact, it appears if what the Wizard creates, is not compatable with the Filter rules viewer/editor.

Any words of wisdom out there, as to how I can get round this?

Regards.

Dave.

Without seeing the messages it is a little difficult to tell you the rule content, but as an initial suggestion you must have a rule before any rule causing a distribution, that tests for yourself (as sender or receiver) and moves or deletes it.

Martin

You also may need to use a rule with regular expressions from text within the message to pull bounces out.

Hi Martin.

Not at the machine in question at the moment, but yes I understand that.  It's just that I can't *Reliably* detect myself as the forwarder.  I am not the originator, our newsletter editor is that, or our club sec', and their source mail id's change, as the task moves arround the committee.

Again, I need to detect that a message has passed through my mailer previously.  At the moment, I can't seem to figure out how to do that.

I can't use the incoming destination (To:) address as part of the rule, as when Peg' automaticaly Forwards something, it Does not alter the "To:" address, so when it comes round again, it's still the same.  It Does add a "Forwarded by:" field in the header, but that cannot be used for a rule check.  That I can figure out.

I'll try and get some headers to illustrate all this, but it'll take a little time, as at the moment, it's an easy way to 'P' off my ISP, even though it's only my mailbox that get's nuked!

Cheers for the reply.

Dave

Hi..

Thanks for the reply.

Problem with regular rules and the body of the mail to check, is that the body of the mail does not get changed when it is forwarded, therefore, it is not posible to do that to see if it has been round before.

Two fields in the mail header get added, "Forwarded by:" and (I think, I'm not in front of the machine in quesiton right now) "Forwarded to:"   The original From: and To: fields do not get changed when the mail is automaticaly forwarded.

Regards..

Dave.

It Does add a "Forwarded by:" field in the header, but that cannot be used for a rule check.

Hi Thomas.

Thanks for your reply.   I'm going to have to ask for more detailed guidance on this.

Are you saying that Peg can indeed examine "Any" header, regular or custom?

In one of the rules entry systems (the wizard) there is one entry field called I think "Other".  I have never made that work, and I've read, and re-read the help many many times, and I'm still not getting it.

What am I doing wrong, or misinterpreting, as I just can't get it to trigger or detect anything other than the "standard" pre-deffined headers.   Even with them, if you select one in the wizard, when you go to the editor, when you open a rule to examine it, more than one is selected, that and I often get duplicate rules in the list (all the same.)

Where shall I post some screen scrapes to illustrate this?

Is there a more detailed text somewhere (with proven worked examples) I can follow?

Thanks for reading this far, sorry for any spikeyness, it's not a good day today.

Regards.

Dave.

[quote user="Dave4x4"]Hi Thomas.

Thanks for your reply.   I'm going to have to ask for more detailed guidance on this.

Are you saying that Peg can indeed examine "Any" header, regular or custom?

It's an string match of data in the headers.  The header is only specified as a part of the string.  

In one of the rules entry systems (the wizard) there is one entry field called I think "Other".  I have never made that work, and I've read, and re-read the help many many times, and I'm still not getting it.

What am I doing wrong, or misinterpreting, as I just can't get it to trigger or detect anything other than the "standard" pre-deffined headers.   Even with them, if you select one in the wizard, when you go to the editor, when you open a rule to examine it, more than one is selected, that and I often get duplicate rules in the list (all the same.)

Where shall I post some screen scrapes to illustrate this?

 Do not need screen prints or graphics, the text from winrules.pmc (PMail) or rules.mer (mercury) is enough.

Is there a more detailed text somewhere (with proven worked examples) I can follow?

Here's a PMail "expression" filter matching a header.

If expression headers matches "X-Text-Classification: spam" Highlight "1"

Thanks for reading this far, sorry for any spikeyness, it's not a good day today.

Regards.

Dave.[/quote]

I just remembered, I used to have a small list like you describe going (it was years ago, but I think V4 came out while I was still running it).  I'm not sure, but I think what I ended up doing to avoid those issues was to take my name off the "list" and just move a copy of the mail in question to a folder in my mailbox _after_ performing the forward, etc.

Hi Thomas, thanks again for replying, sorry for the delay, too many things to do.

 OK, in winrules.pmc, there is this, the first three lines of text, the following stuff is irrelivant to this, and works just fine (moving incoming messages into dedicated folders etc)

NoDisplay:New mail filtering rules
If header "FCRE" contains "X-borg: (<borglist>)" Exit ""
If header "FCRE" contains "borg4x4@g8kbv.demon.co.uk" Exit ""

The first rule line is my attempt to get the thing to recognise a custom X header.  I can see that header in incoming mails just fine, in the raw view.

The second line, is an attempt to get it to ignore anything coming in to that address (what I've set in the list's "Reply to") so members replies or bounces don't get (re)distributed.

Neither seem to work, that is, a following rules that trigger forwarding to the list always fire (triggered by a special subject header) the Exit in the above is never done.

What confuses me, is that whatever I try, that "FCRE" always gets put in there, regardless of any other selection in either of the rule dialogs.  A Bug perhaps?  Even stuff I put in the "Other" field in the wizard, still comes up with the FCRE in the rules editor, and I've found in the pmc file.

 I've never found (yet) where you enter "regular expression" rule matches, I've only seen the rules editor, and the new rule wizard.  Have I missed something?  Or does that mean I have to edit the .pmc file outside of Peg?

In all honesty, I've given up trying to make this work, it's too phreaky and undocumented.  If I did ever make it work, then it broke for whatever reason, it'd be a devils job to fix it.  For now, as it's low traffic anyway (one or two messages a month!) I forward the needed stuff manualy to the list.

Other than the above attempt at a rule triggered list distribution (and some HTML mail rendering crashes when reading stuff sent from a Yahoo list) I have no other issues with Peg', or I'd go use something else.

You mention Mercury, I know wha it is, but have never used it.  Would that be an alernative method for an automated list?  How well would it co-exist on the same PC as Peg, or is a dedicated PC recomended? (not a problem)

Best Regards.

Dave

Hi Lythande, thanks for the reply.

I've done that, take my address out of the list, but bounces and intended replies from the members that I want to come back to me, at the moment if I try to automate things, get redistributed, causing mayhem and confusion.

Also, moving the source message to a folder, but that doesnt stop replies and bounces re-triggering things.

For now, I do it manualy, but it'd be good if I can get it automated.

Best Regards.

Dave.

> Hi Thomas, thanks again for replying, sorry for the delay, too many
> things to do.
>
>  OK, in winrules.pmc, there is this, the first three lines of text,
> the following stuff is irrelivant to this, and works just fine (moving
> incoming messages into dedicated folders etc)
>
>
> NoDisplay:New mail filtering rules
> If header "FCRE" contains "X-borg: (<borglist>)" Exit ""
> If header "FCRE" contains "borg4x4@g8kbv.demon.co.uk" Exit ""
>
>
> The first rule line is my attempt to get the thing to recognise a
> custom X header.  I can see that header in incoming mails just fine,
> in the raw view.

To work with a special header you need to use an "expression" type rule.  It would look something like this in the winrules.pmc.

If expression headers matches "X-borg: (,borglist>)" Exit

Hi Thomas, thanks again for your reply.

Sadly, I'm being rather dense at the moment.  I can see mention of "Expression Rules" in Peg's help system, but where/how does one enter them?   Or, do I need to manually edit the winrules.pmc file, if so, with any old editor (notepad) etc, or???   Also, what not to do, just in case...

Sorry for the dumb ass questions, but the harder I look, it seems the less I see.

Best Regards.

Dave.

Click on the filters icon (or go through the menus) click add rule, second button is expressions.  I think you can figure it out from there.