Multiple copies of Pmail open... could we have more serious prevention of this?

Han vd Bogaerde

posted Aug 26 '07 at 10:52 pm

[quote user="DonPedro"]

NOW I am completely off the hook!

could someone with in-depth knowledge jump in please for an explanation what is going on?

how

could ellie experience multiple running copies of pm without the -ms

switch and what is in effect the meaning of the -A swich since ellie

solved her problem (multiple instances of pm running) by removing it?

[/quote]

Well, why or how removing the -A switch could have solved Ellie's problem, is a puzzle for me as well. In NON-NOVELL-NETWARE mode the -A switch is ignored anyway. So it might have something to do with other options (or illegal characters) on the commandline. Deliberating on that would end up guessing... so I withhold.

Running multiple copies of Pegasus Mail is something that shouldn't be considered unless you know exactly what you do and NEVER run 2 instances on the same mailbox. Pegasus Mail is not designed for that. There are multiple ways to run more instances at the same time, either by setting an environment variable, using the Pegasus.ini file or (since version 4.x) using the -MS commandline option.

[quote user="DonPedro"]NOW I am completely off the hook!could someone with in-depth knowledge jump in please for an explanation what is going on?how could ellie experience multiple running copies of pm without the -ms switch and what is in effect the meaning of the -A swich since ellie solved her problem (multiple instances of pm running) by removing it? [/quote]Well, why or how removing the -A switch could have solved Ellie's problem, is a puzzle for me as well. In NON-NOVELL-NETWARE mode the -A switch is ignored anyway. So it might have something to do with other options (or illegal characters) on the commandline. Deliberating on that would end up guessing... so I withhold. Running multiple copies of Pegasus Mail is something that shouldn't be considered unless you know exactly what you do and NEVER run 2 instances on the same mailbox. Pegasus Mail is not designed for that. There are multiple ways to run more instances at the same time, either by setting an environment variable, using the Pegasus.ini file or (since version 4.x) using the -MS commandline option. &nbsp;

-- Han van den Bogaerde - support@vandenbogaerde.net Member of Pegasus Mail Support Group. My own Pegasus Mail related web information: http://www.vandenbogaerde.net/pegasusmail/

Ellie Kennard

posted Jul 2 '07 at 1:56 pm

Hello all,

I have Pegasus Mail installed on my elderly parents in law's computer. My father in law is losing it a bit and while I have explained multiple times to him that he is not to open Pmail more than once, he just doesn't get it and keeps doing it. I did not realise this for the longest time, but was asked to sort out many problems for them including loss of settings in Internet Options and Options tabs. I could never work out why this kept happening to their client when I have run it for years and it just doesn't happen for me. I have to assume that this has been caused by their hitting 'continue' instead of Exit!

Would it be possible to have a check box that I could set in the options to absolutely deny more than a single copy open? It would be so great in their case as although my mother in law seems to understand, my father in law cannot grasp it and is quite aggressive when I try to explain (again).

Cheers!

Ellie

Hello all,I have Pegasus Mail installed on my elderly parents in law's computer. My father in law is losing it a bit and while I have explained multiple times to him that he is not to open Pmail more than once, he just doesn't get it and keeps doing it. I did not realise this for the longest time, but was asked to sort out many problems for them including loss of settings in Internet Options and Options tabs. I could never work out why this kept happening to their client when I have run it for years and it just doesn't happen for me. I have to assume that this has been caused by their hitting 'continue' instead of Exit!Would it be possible to have a check box that I could set in the options to absolutely deny more than a single copy open? It would be so great in their case as although my mother in law seems to understand, my father in law cannot grasp it and is quite aggressive when I try to explain (again).Cheers!Ellie &nbsp;

Thomas R. Stephenson

posted Jul 3 '07 at 1:23 am

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]

Hello all,

I have Pegasus Mail installed on my elderly parents in law's computer. My father in law is losing it a bit and while I have explained multiple times to him that he is not to open Pmail more than once, he just doesn't get it and keeps doing it. I did not realise this for the longest time, but was asked to sort out many problems for them including loss of settings in Internet Options and Options tabs. I could never work out why this kept happening to their client when I have run it for years and it just doesn't happen for me. I have to assume that this has been caused by their hitting 'continue' instead of Exit!

Would it be possible to have a check box that I could set in the options to absolutely deny more than a single copy open? It would be so great in their case as although my mother in law seems to understand, my father in law cannot grasp it and is quite aggressive when I try to explain (again).

Cheers!

Ellie

[/quote]

Ellie,

IIRC, If you do not have the MS command line option set you cannot run multiple copies of Pegasus Mail from any one machine. In fact when you try it simply opens the currently running copy. That might cause your Mother-in-Law some problems where she would have to close her husbands copy to open hers. ;-)

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]Hello all,I have Pegasus Mail installed on my elderly parents in law's computer. My father in law is losing it a bit and while I have explained multiple times to him that he is not to open Pmail more than once, he just doesn't get it and keeps doing it. I did not realise this for the longest time, but was asked to sort out many problems for them including loss of settings in Internet Options and Options tabs. I could never work out why this kept happening to their client when I have run it for years and it just doesn't happen for me. I have to assume that this has been caused by their hitting 'continue' instead of Exit!Would it be possible to have a check box that I could set in the options to absolutely deny more than a single copy open? It would be so great in their case as although my mother in law seems to understand, my father in law cannot grasp it and is quite aggressive when I try to explain (again).Cheers!Ellie [/quote]&nbsp;Ellie,&nbsp;IIRC, If you do not have the MS command line option set you cannot run multiple copies of Pegasus Mail from any one machine.&nbsp; In fact when you try it simply opens the currently running copy.&nbsp; That might cause your Mother-in-Law some problems where she would have to close her husbands copy to open hers.&nbsp; ;-)&nbsp; &nbsp;

David Harris

posted Jul 3 '07 at 7:24 am

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]

Would it be possible to have a check box that I could set in the options to absolutely deny more than a single copy open? It would be so great in their case as although my mother in law seems to understand, my father in law cannot grasp it and is quite aggressive when I try to explain (again).

[/quote]

I think this is one of those places where I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. It's crucially important that only a single instance of the program ever be accessing any single mailbox, but if I go too far in enforcing that, I create a real risk of making crash recovery too difficult and technical.

I agree that people do not seem to "get" the current warning, and just blithely click through it apparently without even reading it, but I don't know how I can make it stronger without also making it more awkward.

As a point of comparison, I've had some sites complain to me about the dialog, demanding that I remove it altogether (heaven only knows why, when you consider what it's there for). Like I say, damned if I do...

Cheers!

-- David --

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]Would it be possible to have a check box that I could set in the options to absolutely deny more than a single copy open? It would be so great in their case as although my mother in law seems to understand, my father in law cannot grasp it and is quite aggressive when I try to explain (again).[/quote] I think this is one of those places where I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. It's crucially important that only a single instance of the program ever be accessing any single mailbox, but if I go too far in enforcing that, I create a real risk of making crash recovery too difficult and technical. I agree that people do not seem to "get" the current warning, and just blithely click through it apparently without even reading it, but I don't know how I can make it stronger without also making it more awkward. As a point of comparison, I've had some sites complain to me about the dialog, demanding that I remove it altogether (heaven only knows why, when you consider what it's there for). Like I say, damned if I do... Cheers! -- David --

Ellie Kennard

posted Jul 3 '07 at 1:31 pm

I know that it is not easy for you, David. Thanks for the reply.

Cheers!

Ellie

I know that it is not easy for you, David. Thanks for the reply.Cheers!Ellie&nbsp;

Ellie Kennard

posted Jul 4 '07 at 3:54 pm

I wonder how I can perhaps set their copy of Pegasus Mail to only bring up the running copy, rather than the lock mailbox notice? If it only restored the running copy, they would not run into all these problems. Thomas has his set to do just that. They have a single copy installed, a single user, not even two identities! Perhaps I need to check a box somewhere so that clicking on the shortcut simply restores the running copy. How is this done?

Cheers!

Ellie

I wonder how I can perhaps set their copy of Pegasus Mail to only bring up the running copy, rather than the lock mailbox notice? If it only restored the running copy, they would not run into all these problems. Thomas has his set to do just that. They have a single copy installed, a single user, not even two identities! Perhaps I need to check a box somewhere so that clicking on the shortcut simply restores the running copy. How is this done?Cheers!Ellie&nbsp;

Medievalist

posted Jul 6 '07 at 12:36 am

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]

I wonder how I can perhaps set their copy of Pegasus Mail to only bring up the running copy, rather than the lock mailbox notice? If it only restored the running copy, they would not run into all these problems. Thomas has his set to do just that. They have a single copy installed, a single user, not even two identities! Perhaps I need to check a box somewhere so that clicking on the shortcut simply restores the running copy. How is this done?

[/quote]

Normally, you cannot run two copies of Pegasus Mail on the same computer at the same time. If you click the icon again, it just brings the running copy to the screen. Network file sharing and the more recent versions of MS windows have thrown a couple of monkey wrenches in the works, though.

When Pegasus starts up it creates a lock file, and when it shuts down normally it deletes that file. That way, if someone forgets that they have started Pegasus running on one computer, and they go to another computer and attempt to start it, Pegasus sees that a lock file already exists and puts up a warning message "somebody is already using this copy of Pegasus".

Pegasus must allow you to override this warning, because sometimes that lock file only exists because the computer crashed (or the power failed) and Pegasus did not get an opportunity to delete it. That's what David was referring to when he said he has to allow people to do this - otherwise their mail would become locked and unusable if the power failed while they were reading it.

Often when I hear about a situation like your in-laws' what is actually happening is that a user is simply shutting off power to the computer rather then performing system shutdown, which prevents Pegasus from performing its routine final file cleanup. That causes no end of problems, but some people still insist on just turning off the light switch rather than waiting for system shutdown.

Recent versions of Windows (such as XP) have what they call "family logons" (or something like that; I'm not really a windows guy, except at work where we don't use that feature) which takes advantage of WinXP's true multitasking capability to allow multiple people to each have their own "user accounts" on a single windows system. When people do this, they can do a "switch user" instead of a "logout" and that will allow one person to leave programs running in the background whilst another person runs her programs on the screen. I don't know how well Pegasus would deal with a situation like that one.

So, make sure your inlaws do "logout" and not "switch user" if their system is set up to give them such a choice, and make sure they know how to do a proper system shutdown, and the problem might go away. Anyway, it's the only solution I can think of at the moment. :(

I do tech support for my spouse's retired parents too, so I sympathize greatly with your plight. Good luck!

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]I wonder how I can perhaps set their copy of Pegasus Mail to only bring up the running copy, rather than the lock mailbox notice? If it only restored the running copy, they would not run into all these problems. Thomas has his set to do just that. They have a single copy installed, a single user, not even two identities! Perhaps I need to check a box somewhere so that clicking on the shortcut simply restores the running copy. How is this done?[/quote]Normally, you cannot run two copies of Pegasus Mail on the same computer at the same time.&nbsp; If you click the icon again, it just brings the running copy to the screen.&nbsp; Network file sharing and the more recent versions of MS windows have thrown a couple of monkey wrenches in the works, though.When Pegasus starts up it creates a lock file, and when it shuts down normally it deletes that file.&nbsp; That way, if someone forgets that they have started Pegasus running on one computer, and they go to another computer and attempt to start it, Pegasus sees that a lock file already exists and puts up a warning message "somebody is already using this copy of Pegasus".Pegasus must allow you to override this warning, because sometimes that lock file only exists because the computer crashed (or the power failed) and Pegasus did not get an opportunity to delete it. That's what David was referring to when he said he has to allow people to do this - otherwise their mail would become locked and unusable if the power failed while they were reading it. Often when I hear about a situation like your in-laws' what is actually happening is that a user is simply shutting off power to the computer rather then performing system shutdown, which prevents Pegasus from performing its routine final file cleanup.&nbsp; That causes no end of problems, but some people still insist on just turning off the light switch rather than waiting for system shutdown.Recent versions of Windows (such as XP) have what they call "family logons" (or something like that; I'm not really a windows guy, except at work where we don't use that feature) which takes advantage of WinXP's true multitasking capability to allow multiple people to each have their own "user accounts" on a single windows system.&nbsp; When people do this, they can do a "switch user" instead of a "logout" and that will allow one person to leave programs running in the background whilst another person runs her programs on the screen.&nbsp; I don't know how well Pegasus would deal with a situation like that one. So, make sure your inlaws do "logout" and not "switch user" if their system is set up to give them such a choice, and make sure they know how to do a proper system shutdown, and the problem might go away.&nbsp; Anyway, it's the only solution I can think of at the moment.&nbsp; :( &nbsp;I do tech support for my spouse's retired parents too, so I sympathize greatly with your plight.&nbsp; Good luck! &nbsp;

Ellie Kennard

posted Jul 6 '07 at 1:09 am

[quote user="Medievalist"]

You cannot run two copies of Pegasus Mail on the same computer at the same time. If you click the icon again, it just brings the running copy to the screen. Network file sharing and the more recent versions of MS windows have thrown a couple of monkey wrenches in the works, though.[/quote]

When they click on another copy, though, it does not bring up the running copy. When I checked their computer remotely one day, they had seven copies all lined up on the task bar.

[quote user="Medievalist"]Pegasus must allow you to override this warning, because sometimes that lock file only exists because the computer crashed (or the power failed) and Pegasus did not get an opportunity to delete it. That's what David was referring to when he said he has to allow people to do this - otherwise their mail would become locked and unusable if the power failed while they were reading it.[/quote]

I get it. I see that it is necessary. What I would like is for it just to bring up the running copy.

[quote user="Medievalist"]Often when I hear about a situation like your in-laws' what is actually happening is that a user is simply shutting off power to the computer rather then performing system shutdown, which prevents Pegasus from performing its routine final file cleanup. That causes no end of problems, but some people still insist on just turning off the light switch rather than waiting for system shutdown.

Recent versions of Windows (such as XP) have what they call "family

logons" (or something like that; I'm not really a windows guy, except

at work where we don't use that feature) which takes advantage of

WinXP's true multitasking capability to allow multiple people to each

have their own "user accounts" on a single windows system. When people

do this, they can do a "switch user" instead of a "logout" and that

will allow one person to leave programs running in the background

whilst another person runs her programs on the screen. I don't know

how well Pegasus would deal with a situation like that one.[/quote]

This is not the case here. The computer is running and has not either shut down nor has it more than one 'user' so there is no question of switching users.
Thanks for the sympathy and the suggestions, though. I appreciate them!

Cheers!

Ellie

[quote user="Medievalist"]You cannot run two copies of Pegasus Mail on the same computer at the same time.&nbsp; If you click the icon again, it just brings the running copy to the screen.&nbsp; Network file sharing and the more recent versions of MS windows have thrown a couple of monkey wrenches in the works, though.[/quote]When they click on another copy, though, it does not bring up the running copy. When I checked their computer remotely one day, they had seven copies all lined up on the task bar.&nbsp;[quote user="Medievalist"]Pegasus must allow you to override this warning, because sometimes that lock file only exists because the computer crashed (or the power failed) and Pegasus did not get an opportunity to delete it. That's what David was referring to when he said he has to allow people to do this - otherwise their mail would become locked and unusable if the power failed while they were reading it.[/quote]I get it. I see that it is necessary. What I would like is for it just to bring up the running copy.&nbsp;[quote user="Medievalist"]Often when I hear about a situation like your in-laws' what is actually happening is that a user is simply shutting off power to the computer rather then performing system shutdown, which prevents Pegasus from performing its routine final file cleanup.&nbsp; That causes no end of problems, but some people still insist on just turning off the light switch rather than waiting for system shutdown.Recent versions of Windows (such as XP) have what they call "family logons" (or something like that; I'm not really a windows guy, except at work where we don't use that feature) which takes advantage of WinXP's true multitasking capability to allow multiple people to each have their own "user accounts" on a single windows system.&nbsp; When people do this, they can do a "switch user" instead of a "logout" and that will allow one person to leave programs running in the background whilst another person runs her programs on the screen.&nbsp; I don't know how well Pegasus would deal with a situation like that one.[/quote]This is not the case here. The computer is running and has not either shut down nor has it more than one 'user' so there is no question of switching users. Thanks for the sympathy and the suggestions, though. I appreciate them!Cheers!Ellie &nbsp;

PaulW

posted Jul 6 '07 at 11:03 am

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]When they click on another copy, though, it does not bring up the running copy. When I checked their computer remotely one day, they had seven copies all lined up on the task bar. [/quote]

Ellie, I can't see any mention of which versions of Pegasus Mail and Windows they are using. That information may be useful, together with knowing how PM is started - is it a single shortcut on the desktop?

[quote user="Ellie Kennard"]When they click on another copy, though, it does not bring up the running copy. When I checked their computer remotely one day, they had seven copies all lined up on the task bar.&nbsp;[/quote] Ellie, I can't see any mention of which versions of Pegasus Mail and Windows they are using.&nbsp; That information may be useful, together with knowing how PM is started - is it a single shortcut on the desktop?

Ellie Kennard

posted Jul 6 '07 at 2:58 pm

[quote user="PaulW"]

Ellie, I can't see any mention of which versions of Pegasus Mail and Windows they are using. That information may be useful, together with knowing how PM is started - is it a single shortcut on the desktop?

[/quote]

Hi Paul,

They are using Windows XP SP2 Home version. Pegasus Mail is version 4.41 Win 32. I am not sure if it is simply a shortcut on the desktop, but I seem to remember that it is. But a shortcut with no additional things added to it (single user). When they come on line I will check if there is any other important detail I missed, but their setup is very simple, as befits computer illiterates of a certain age.

Cheers!

Ellie

[quote user="PaulW"] Ellie, I can't see any mention of which versions of Pegasus Mail and Windows they are using.&nbsp; That information may be useful, together with knowing how PM is started - is it a single shortcut on the desktop?[/quote]Hi Paul,They are using Windows XP SP2 Home version. Pegasus Mail is version 4.41 Win 32. I am not sure if it is simply a shortcut on the desktop, but I seem to remember that it is. But a shortcut with no additional things added to it (single user). When they come on line I will check if there is any other important detail I missed, but their setup is very simple, as befits computer illiterates of a certain age. Cheers!Ellie &nbsp;

Ellie Kennard

posted Jul 6 '07 at 5:19 pm

Solved the problem!

For a reason I don't understand, they had a shortcut that had a -A at the end of it. Not sure what that does, but I have removed that and all is well. Thanks to Thomas Stephenson and others whose help on and off the list gave me some hints as to what the problem might be.

At last! One less problem for me to worry about.

Ellie

Solved the problem!For a reason I don't understand, they had a shortcut that had a -A at the end of it. Not sure what that does, but I have removed that and all is well. Thanks to Thomas Stephenson and others whose help on and off the list gave me some hints as to what the problem might be. At last! One less problem for me to worry about.Ellie&nbsp;

DonPedro

posted Aug 25 '07 at 2:12 am

ellie (and others too!),

your solution to your problem really puzzles me!

I

am using pegasus with the same command line option since ever but I

never experienced the problem you got. I thought that the "-A" switch

means "administrator" ......

so I checked the pm's built-in help file for the command line switches. what I found there gives me headache:

the help states:

Run control options

-A (no parameter)

Forces Pegasus Mail to run in standalone mode, ignoring any NetWare connection.

a) no word of administrator-mode (I am pretty sure that I learned some time back that it stands for it, mmmh ....)

b) it somehow would mean that without the -A switch you are NOT in standalone mode, which contradicts the effects you saw

some lines deeper in the help-file it states:

-MS (no parameter)

Start multiple sessions of Pegasus Mail. Use this switch if you want a

new copy of Pegasus Mail to start up when the program is run, instead

of control simply being transferred to any copy that might currently be

running on your system. This switch is usually only useful when

combined with the -I or -U switch to specify a user. WARNING!!

This switch DOES NOT allow you to run two copies of Pegasus Mail that

simultaneously access the same mailbox: all running copies of Pegasus

Mail on the system must be accessing different mailboxes. If you ignore

this warning and allow two copies of Pegasus Mail to access the same

mailbox at the same time, then you will almost certainly end up with

loss of data.

NOW I am completely off the hook!

could someone with in-depth knowledge jump in please for an explanation what is going on?

how

could ellie experience multiple running copies of pm without the -ms

switch and what is in effect the meaning of the -A swich since ellie

solved her problem (multiple instances of pm running) by removing it?

ellie (and others too!),your solution to your problem really puzzles me!I am using pegasus with the same command line option since ever but I never experienced the problem you got. I thought that the "-A" switch means "administrator" ......so I checked the pm's built-in help file for the command line switches. what I found there gives me headache:the help states:Run control options -A (no parameter) Forces Pegasus Mail to run in standalone mode, ignoring any NetWare connection.a) no word of administrator-mode (I am pretty sure that I learned some time back that it stands for it, mmmh ....)b) it somehow would mean that without the -A switch you are NOT in standalone mode, which contradicts the effects you saw&nbsp;some lines deeper in the help-file it states:-MS (no parameter) Start multiple sessions of Pegasus Mail. Use this switch if you want a new copy of Pegasus Mail to start up when the program is run, instead of control simply being transferred to any copy that might currently be running on your system. This switch is usually only useful when combined with the -I or -U switch to specify a user. WARNING!!&nbsp; This switch DOES NOT allow you to run two copies of Pegasus Mail that simultaneously access the same mailbox: all running copies of Pegasus Mail on the system must be accessing different mailboxes. If you ignore this warning and allow two copies of Pegasus Mail to access the same mailbox at the same time, then you will almost certainly end up with loss of data.&nbsp;NOW I am completely off the hook!&nbsp;could someone with in-depth knowledge jump in please for an explanation what is going on?how could ellie experience multiple running copies of pm without the -ms switch and what is in effect the meaning of the -A swich since ellie solved her problem (multiple instances of pm running) by removing it? &nbsp;

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